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Crosstown LRT | Metrolinx

Northern Light

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Metrolinx has finally admitted that the opening of this line is now delayed well into 2022.

I've given the matter due consideration @Tuscani01 and I blame you.

Back in a day, you could have pitched your bosses bosses boss on the value of branding!

I mean w/multiple existing stores and an HQ on the line...........

It clearly should have been the Mastercraft Line, brought to you by Canadian Tire.

Then the store development team could have overseen a line w/exceptional merchandising displays, seemlessly ntegrated to every station.

With each station built so well it comes with a lifetime guarantee or 100 years (the greater of the 2) or your money back!

All in CT colours w/stations in Red and Black with periodic bursts of faux wood and Mark's orange.

All with just-in-time delivery, at competitive prices.

But.....noooooo; you woudln't pitch the idea.......................

?
 
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MetroMan

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44 North

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No firm date set for completion.

Exclusive: Eglinton Crosstown LRT delayed until 2022, Metrolinx confirms.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...faces-another-setback-delayed-until-2022.html
Not going to fault Metrolinx on this one. Well the secrecy and political subterfuge yes. But it is unfortunate, specifically for the notion that P3s were to be a proverbial magic bullet to have things built quicker than in the past. This is working out to be the same amount of time.

Also what's the point of even completing the surface section when it's going to be sitting quiet for 2.5yrs. Maybe they thought it'd woo people into thinking the project's pretty much done. But seems like it'd have the opposite effect. Public sees completed platforms, tracks, and poles - but no service for 30mths - they'll ask more questions and be more angry. Still think a rolling approach could be the best method. Have a hardened crew work from one end to another with stations basically being built one at a time. Which also allows a staged opening.
 

Voltz

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To make matters worse, I feel like mentioning that the line was originally supposed to open in phases starting in 2016 (Eglinton West to Martin Grove was to be the first), until McGunity delayed and reduced the funding, and took over the project from the TTC, and switched it to a P3 scheme, requiring a great deal of procurement work to be redone, wasting a few years of time.
 

Steve X

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To make matters worse, I feel like mentioning that the line was originally supposed to open in phases starting in 2016 (Eglinton West to Martin Grove was to be the first), until McGunity delayed and reduced the funding, and took over the project from the TTC, and switched it to a P3 scheme, requiring a great deal of procurement work to be redone, wasting a few years of time.
Originally claimed 2015 assuming it started right away. Which is believable as the TYSSE started main construction in 2011 and finished 2 years later in Dec 2017. It started a couple years late cause of funding issue too as utilities relocation started in 2008. They decided to spread out the cash flow and build the tunnels first which is the main problem. P3 isn't the biggest issue.

Compare

TYSSE (2011-2017) 6 years:
Tunneling: 2011-2013
Station construction: 2011-2016 (death at York U and TTC mismanagement led to delays)
Station finishing: 2015-2017
Track installation: 2014-2016
First train testing: 2017
Opening: 2017

Crosstown (2013-2022?) 9 years:
Tunneling: 2013-2016
Station construction: 2018-2022?
Station finishing: 2019/2020-2022? (Mt Dennis+Keelesdale started last year)
Track installation: 2019-2021?
First train testing: 2019
Opening: 2022?

Now if the Crosstown was phased like TYSSE:
Tunneling: 2013-2015 (Buy 6 TBMs instead of 4, start all tunneling at the same time)
Station construction: 2013-2018 (Start tunneling along with station box construction)
Station finishing: 2017-2019
Track installation: 2016-2018
First train opening: 2019
Opening: 2019!

This takes in account of delays that they face at Eglinton as Downsview Park, York U and Pioneer Village had problems too. So if TTC were to build the line in the traditional way with funding of course, we'll be riding it now. Nevermind, I forgot there's no trains!

A 2025 opening for Eglinton West LRT to Renforth is totally possible. 2027/28 opening would be possible for the Ontario Line if they don't gown down the Crosstown path.
 

crs1026

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Crosstown won’t open on time? I’m shocked. Shocked!

Delays of this sort happen. The real story is in ML’s secretiveness and lack of transparency. ML seems to believe its own press releases.If they can just keep denying, it will open on time......

The thing to watch is how ML feeds its contractor to the press. The P3 process will be the victim.

No contractor is going to sign up for a P3 in the future without some very tight language and very large contingencies.

- Paul
 

Jonny5

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The statement also cites a defect discovered in decades-old infrastructure located under the TTC’s Eglinton subway station at Yonge Street, which has complicated construction of a new LRT stop beneath the subway at the site.
On which piece of infrastructure does this "defect" exist? And how severe is it that it is causing delays which are so significant?
"Decades-old" as a descriptor is kind of useless. It sounds like something they want you to think means it's from the 60's, but this is 2020. We are at the point where that could mean something built in 1999.
 

Richard White

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On which piece of infrastructure does this "defect" exist? And how severe is it that it is causing delays which are so significant?
"Decades-old" as a descriptor is kind of useless. It sounds like something they want you to think means it's from the 60's, but this is 2020. We are at the point where that could mean something built in 1999.
It was pipes from the 50s that apparently were in the wrong spot. This then caused problems for the construction
 

urbanyimby

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There will be crossover tracks at Cedarvale Station (Eglinton West Station) with Line 1. Open the section between Mt. Dennis and Cedarvale until the problem with Eglinton Station is rectified. Basically, a modified Eglinton West Subway (see link).



From link.
Cedarvale won't be ready by next year, so why bother
 

cplchanb

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There will be crossover tracks at Cedarvale Station (Eglinton West Station) with Line 1. Open the section between Mt. Dennis and Cedarvale until the problem with Eglinton Station is rectified. Basically, a modified Eglinton West Subway (see link).



From link.
unfortunately thats a bit too optimistic of a plan for toronto unfortunately... ?
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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Wait till the other shoe drop about the budget. Anyways, there probably isn't a huge point in opening any stretch of the line independently when the central portion isn't ready.

AoD
 

TheTigerMaster

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Originally claimed 2015 assuming it started right away. Which is believable as the TYSSE started main construction in 2011 and finished 2 years later in Dec 2017. It started a couple years late cause of funding issue too as utilities relocation started in 2008. They decided to spread out the cash flow and build the tunnels first which is the main problem. P3 isn't the biggest issue.

Compare

TYSSE (2011-2017) 6 years:
Tunneling: 2011-2013
Station construction: 2011-2016 (death at York U and TTC mismanagement led to delays)
Station finishing: 2015-2017
Track installation: 2014-2016
First train testing: 2017
Opening: 2017

Crosstown (2013-2022?) 9 years:
Tunneling: 2013-2016
Station construction: 2018-2022?
Station finishing: 2019/2020-2022? (Mt Dennis+Keelesdale started last year)
Track installation: 2019-2021?
First train testing: 2019
Opening: 2022?

Now if the Crosstown was phased like TYSSE:
Tunneling: 2013-2015 (Buy 6 TBMs instead of 4, start all tunneling at the same time)
Station construction: 2013-2018 (Start tunneling along with station box construction)
Station finishing: 2017-2019
Track installation: 2016-2018
First train opening: 2019
Opening: 2019!

This takes in account of delays that they face at Eglinton as Downsview Park, York U and Pioneer Village had problems too. So if TTC were to build the line in the traditional way with funding of course, we'll be riding it now. Nevermind, I forgot there's no trains!

A 2025 opening for Eglinton West LRT to Renforth is totally possible. 2027/28 opening would be possible for the Ontario Line if they don't gown down the Crosstown path.
I think 10 years of construction for 10 km of subway is just absurd. Especially thru a predominantly suburban environment
 

TheTigerMaster

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Crosstown won’t open on time? I’m shocked. Shocked!

Delays of this sort happen. The real story is in ML’s secretiveness and lack of transparency. ML seems to believe its own press releases.If they can just keep denying, it will open on time......

The thing to watch is how ML feeds its contractor to the press. The P3 process will be the victim.

No contractor is going to sign up for a P3 in the future without some very tight language and very large contingencies.

- Paul
We’ve already seen that be a major factor in the Hamilton LRT and GO Electrification procurement. This might all indicate that IO’s preferred P3 model might not be viable anymore.
 

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