Condo in Florida Collapses

[slickpete83]

great youtube channel Building Integrity , Florida structural engineer firm goes over what might have happened and looks at 2018 reports as well , few vidoes on their channel

Surfside Building Collapse - Miami Florida - What They Knew and a Correction​

Surfside Building Collapse - Miami Florida - Can Apathy Bring Down a Building? Part 1 of 2​

Surfside Building Collapse - Miami Florida - What Caused the Collapse?​

 

[Northern Light]

great youtube channel Building Integrity , Florida structural engineer firm goes over what might have happened and looks at 2018 reports as well , few vidoes on their channel

Extremely good videos; very informative. Thank you.

I commend others, particularly those w/engineering knowledge to offer their, more informed thoughts.

 

[slickpete83]

Surfside Building Collapse - Miami Florida - Other Contributing Factors​

Surfside Building Collapse - Miami Florida - Can Apathy Bring Down a Building? Part 2 of 2​

Surfside Building Collapse - Miami Florida - An Analysis of the Moments Right Before the Collapse​

 

[Admiral Beez]

This seems to be a story about the inevitable consequences of building neglect.

 

[W. K. Lis]

This seems to be a story about the inevitable consequences of building neglect.

Shows what happens when the condo association members, or even individual home owners, do not want to spend any money for upkeep of the building.

From link.

 

[Rimsky44]

How prevalent is this problem in Toronto? You see condo owners raising a stink on special assessments (to their own detriment potentially, for example https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...mid-1-3m-in-assessments-rising-fees-1.5086766). Granted, sounds like there are some issues with related party conflicts of interest in that situation.

I'd be curious about the condos near the water in flood-prone areas...

 

[Northern Light]

How prevalent is this problem in Toronto? You see condo owners raising a stink on special assessments (to their own detriment potentially, for example https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...mid-1-3m-in-assessments-rising-fees-1.5086766). Granted, sounds like there are some issues with related party conflicts of interest in that situation.

I'd be curious about the condos near the water in flood-prone areas...

I'm sure there are serious issues of neglect at times; though, unlike coastal Florida, we lack salt-water, and its especially corrosive effects; BUT, boy do we try to make up for it with road salt in winter; and that melt water is similarly corrosive!

Which is one more good reason to move to hydronic snow melt systems, wherever practical.

****

In Toronto, the most infamous collapse I can think of recently, was the pedestrian bridge leading to Crescent Town Elementary School, which collapsed.

Fortunately, no one was on, or under the bridge at the time.

Toronto, Canada and Global Breaking News – CP24

Most recent News News business news stories and video from CP24

www.cp24.com

 

[W. K. Lis]

I'm sure there are serious issues of neglect at times; though, unlike coastal Florida, we lack salt-water, and its especially corrosive effects; BUT, boy do we try to make up for it with road salt in winter; and that melt water is similarly corrosive!

Which is one more good reason to move to hydronic snow melt systems, wherever practical.

****

In Toronto, the most infamous collapse I can think of recently, was the pedestrian bridge leading to Crescent Town Elementary School, which collapsed.

Fortunately, no one was on, or under the bridge at the time.

Toronto, Canada and Global Breaking News – CP24

Most recent News News business news stories and video from CP24

www.cp24.com

With the garages under office, apartment, and condo buildings, we have the road salt melting off motor vehicles onto the floor (and underneath ceilings), which would corrode the concrete. I've seen contractors rebuilding the underground garages, likely after protests from others who don't know why they are spending all that money.

 

[Admiral Beez]

How prevalent is this problem in Toronto? You see condo owners raising a stink on special assessments (to their own detriment potentially, for example https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...mid-1-3m-in-assessments-rising-fees-1.5086766). Granted, sounds like there are some issues with related party conflicts of interest in that situation.

Just wait until the 2040s when all these condos built with floor to ceiling glass instead of proper walls and knock out windows begin to see failures in their insulation values. The buildings won’t fall down, but their owners will be refusing to spend the millions needed to replace all the glass every 2-3 decades.

Condo-shopping? Be wary of window repair costs - Toronto | Globalnews.ca

Floor to ceiling windows offer the million-dollar view that help sell condos across the GTA, but replacing those windows could come with a price tag of $100,000, according to a university professor.

globalnews.ca

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/throw-away-buildings-toronto-s-glass-condos-1.1073319

 

[Rimsky44]

The buildings won’t fall down, but their owners will be refusing to spend the millions needed to replace all the glass every 2-3 decades.

Add on the fact a lot of the condos are now owned by investors who are incentivised to minimize capital outlay to maximize return, that's not a pretty future...

 

[W. K. Lis]

Surfside catastrophe raises concerns about San Francisco's sinking Millennium Tower​

From link.

San Francisco's lavish Millennium Tower, with soaring panoramic views and world-class amenities, opened to great fanfare in 2009.

A dozen years later, it's still promoted "Your city within the city," a 58-story monolith with more than 400 multimillion-dollar units in San Francisco's tallest residential building.

"It was billed as one of the top 10 most luxurious buildings in the world," former Millennium resident Frank Jernigan recalled.

But, since it opened, the hulking blue-gray tower has sunk 18 inches into the soft downtown soil on which it was built -- and it's tilting, according to the Millennium's current engineer, Ronald Hamburger.

Now, amid reports suggesting the deadly collapse of the Champlain Towers South more than 3,000 miles away in Surfside, Florida, began in the building's lower reaches, questions are being raised about the Bay Area tower's structural integrity.

"When you have a high rise that collapses and you had a situation in San Francisco -- we had a high rise that was sinking and tilting -- it affects people's peace of mind," said attorney Niall McCarthy. He represented about 100 Millennium Tower residents who reached a mediated settlement in 2020 with developers and others to a lawsuit claiming their property values plummeted with news of the sinking.

Hamburger, who has monitored the settlements of the Millennium Tower and evaluated their effect on the structure since 2014, told CNN in a statement that the building was designed for earthquake resistance, remains safe and is not at risk of collapse.

"The collapse of the residential building in Surfside ... was tragic, but it is far too early to speculate about what caused that disaster -- and any potential comparisons with Millennium Tower would be reckless and premature," Hamburger said.

"Millennium Tower was designed to stringent earthquake resistance standards and is a much tougher form of construction than typical buildings in Florida, which are not required to be designed for earthquake resistance," he added. "I can state with confidence that settlements experienced by Millennium Tower have not compromised its stability and safety."

A $100 million fix, set to be completed next year, involves the installation of piles into the bedrock of downtown San Francisco beneath the building, according to Millennium spokesman Doug Elmets. The piles will then be tied to the existing foundation, he said.

The retrofit, announced in October following years of lawsuits, hearings and accusations, will finally anchor the building to the bedrock. The original foundation was built into deep sand and experts determined that nearby projects and a process known as dewatering had weakened the soil under the sinking tower.

"The structural upgrade currently underway at the tower is intended to prevent further settlement, and recover some of the building's tilt, rather than to repair damage or provide strengthening," Hamburger said in the statement. "The building remains safe and is in no danger of collapse."

"These people were lying in bed comfortably at night with no warning whatsoever," former Millennium resident Jernigan said of the Surfside catastrophe. "It's a horrendous thing for the families to be going through now. And our hearts just go out."

Jernigan, a retired software engineer, and Andrew Faulk, a retired physician, paid more than $4 million in 2011 for their condo on the 50th floor of the Millennial.

Years later Jernigan and Faulk learned the highrise was not only sinking but also tilting. In 2016, they recorded a heavily watched online video titled, "Marble roll in Millennium Tower."

"It was the very first time we did it," Jernigan said of the experiment. "He got the marble out and I'm going to roll this and see what it does."

In the video, aimed at demonstrating the infamous tilt, the marble was rolled on a hardwood floor but it then changed directions.

"Rolls about 10 feet out," Jernigan, who shot the video, said of the marble's trajectory. "Slows to a stop and then turns around and starts rolling back and picks up speed as it goes past him."

"In the direction that the building is leaning," Faulk interjected. "And so, it was like, 'Oh my God.'"

In 2017, CBS's "60 Minutes" called a segment on the Millennium "The Leaning Tower of San Francisco," and showed alarming stress gauges and cracks in the building's foundation.

Jernigan and Faulk sold their two Millennium units in 2017 for what the former software engineer called "earthquake sale prices."

"It was a really wonderful place to live and, of course, we didn't know it when we were moving in, but there were also wonderful people that lived there," Jernigan said.

Amenities in the building included a barrel shaped wine locker, a private movie theater, and a sprawling outdoor terrace with a marble fireplace and waterfall overlooking the indoor Olympic-sized pool.

Jernigan and Faulk, of course, will not be around with their friends and onetime neighbors for the completion of the Millennium's fix in late 2022. They have moved to another condo complex.
"We did what we had to do to get peace of mind," Jernigan said.

Faulk added, "We got our suitcases ... put everything in .... and we left."

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Just wait until the 2040s when all these condos built with floor to ceiling glass instead of proper walls and knock out windows begin to see failures in their insulation values. The buildings won’t fall down, but their owners will be refusing to spend the millions needed to replace all the glass every 2-3 decades.

Condo-shopping? Be wary of window repair costs - Toronto | Globalnews.ca

Floor to ceiling windows offer the million-dollar view that help sell condos across the GTA, but replacing those windows could come with a price tag of $100,000, according to a university professor.

globalnews.ca

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/throw-away-buildings-toronto-s-glass-condos-1.1073319

You must have forgotten we already had that experience - in BC:

Leaky condo crisis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

AoD

 

[slickpete83]

Florida Condo Is Demolished, Search for Victims Continues​

Jul.06 -- The remaining part of the Champlain Towers South condo building in Surfside, Florida was demolished Sunday night so rescuers could expand their search area. At least 32 are dead and more than 110 are missing.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Behind paywall - from the Globe:

After Miami building collapse, questions emerge about condo safety in Canada

Existing Canadian condo rules have significant gaps, which have been further exposed by the highly speculative nature of the market in cities such as Toronto and Vancouver

www.theglobeandmail.com

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

Behind paywall - from the Globe:

After Miami building collapse, questions emerge about condo safety in Canada

Existing Canadian condo rules have significant gaps, which have been further exposed by the highly speculative nature of the market in cities such as Toronto and Vancouver

www.theglobeandmail.com

AoD

Not currently paywalled!

****

No specific buildings are named, nor is there explicit evidence given of a pervasive problem. (which is not to say there is not one).

But the substance is some anecdotal information, in particularly about 1 unnamed property. As well as some suggestions of the problems inherent with leaving major maintence decisions to Boards of Directors.

The piece also suggests a role for one action taken in Australia.

But takes time, early on to note some differences in Canada in terms of mandatory reserves, physical inspections and the like.