fieras
Banned
With that work ethic
I find it hard to believe you're inclined to go to a gym anywhere
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Condo Fees v/s freehold maintainance expense
- Thread starter Rocky
- Start date
With that work ethic
I find it hard to believe you're inclined to go to a gym anywhere
cdr108
Senior Member
simuls
Senior Member
In my condo, 50% of my condo fees go towards the Reserve fund. When the roof, heating unit, balcony, exterior windows, front door, parking lot, etc, need repairing - it's already been paid for. My car is parked in a heated lot - never needing to be cleared of snow, can move packages on the interior without getting rained or snowed on, etc.
With regards to amenities, it is true that if you don't use them you will feel like you're getting the shrift, but unless you're in a really small building, you're not paying that much for them anyway. It's simple economy of scale. People forget all the little niceties that go with a condo like a concierge to accept parcels for you (no needing to hop into a car, waste gas, etc to get to the post office), and the level of security. Most condo's have electronic access, then a concierge, then your suite - that's three levels - way safer than any home.
As I've said, I've done the math, extensively, and there is no comparison. A decently run condo is waaaaayyyy cheaper (I'd say at least 30%) in the long run (5+ years) than any freehold house - including a newly built one - even if you're doing your own repairs (and I know few, if any, people who know how to install a new boiler, roof, driveway, windows, etc.).
With regards to amenities, it is true that if you don't use them you will feel like you're getting the shrift, but unless you're in a really small building, you're not paying that much for them anyway. It's simple economy of scale. People forget all the little niceties that go with a condo like a concierge to accept parcels for you (no needing to hop into a car, waste gas, etc to get to the post office), and the level of security. Most condo's have electronic access, then a concierge, then your suite - that's three levels - way safer than any home.
As I've said, I've done the math, extensively, and there is no comparison. A decently run condo is waaaaayyyy cheaper (I'd say at least 30%) in the long run (5+ years) than any freehold house - including a newly built one - even if you're doing your own repairs (and I know few, if any, people who know how to install a new boiler, roof, driveway, windows, etc.).
AKS
Senior Member
I think it might depend on the condo you live in. It varies by management. From stimulus's condo. The reserve fund is 50%, tridel seems to be 10%. The condo I lived in scarborough I used to live at was 20%. I'm not sure about westone. But seems like the more placed in reserve fund seems to be better for those in the long run. If they go over budget they can delve into the reserve fund maybe? Otherwise the maintenance costs will rocket each time a fix is required and they're over budget.
I have a co-worker who lives in another older city place condo. He's apt is around 700 sq ft or so but his maintenance is around $700/month :O
I have a co-worker who lives in another older city place condo. He's apt is around 700 sq ft or so but his maintenance is around $700/month :O
cdr108
Senior Member
simuls
Senior Member
I agree that fee sounds ridiculous!!
Do your research and the math, look at the condo budgets, the reserve fund studies, etc. and then make an informed decision. There's no magic number that will work as every condo is different - that's why I said "decently managed".
Do your research and the math, look at the condo budgets, the reserve fund studies, etc. and then make an informed decision. There's no magic number that will work as every condo is different - that's why I said "decently managed".
AKS
Senior Member
From the description of his location. He seems to be located at blue jays road. He said his place faces the skydome opposite side of infinity. I'm not sure if he's exaggerating his maintenance and under estimating his floor size. But I guess it might be somewhat believable. I'm in a new condo at west one and it's around 50 cents/sq ft and it's a new condo. Condo fees go up almost yearly. His should be about 7 yrs old I think?
cdr108
Senior Member
There have been MANY stories of maintenance fees rising after the 1st year of occupancy because the developers under-estimate the cost to make their buildings sound more economically attractive to purchasers. (ie. advertised at $0.37 - 0.43 PSF)
What I have found is that ~$0.50 PSF is typical, regardless if the building is new or older.
It would be really appreciated if you could find out the actual building.
I bet your friend may have underestimated his floor space (because actual usable SF differs from builder's SF as per plan); and be including his property taxes as part of his 'maintenance' fee calculations.
Bloor West Villager
Active Member
There are also usually separate maintenance fees for parking spaces and storage units. If the total maintenance fee is divided by the unit's square footage, this could provide a skewed calculation of the maintenance fee on the unit itself.
simuls
Senior Member
As an example, I have a 680 sq ft condo in King West that was occupied in sep'05, so it's quite new. My condo fees, as well as the condo fees of pretty much everybody I know who owns a condo, almost doubled after year one (they were ridiculously low for the first year at $175/month plus hydro). I now pay $317/month, which includes $60/parking and $15/locker (so without those, the condo fee would only be $242). That also includes my heating/water. My hydro bill is approximately $17/month for this property. So all in, it's $334, or roughly 50cents/square foot. My fees went up 2% the second year, and another 2% the third...not bad.
Older condo's along King West (near Bathurst for example) have ridiculously high condo fees because they're quite inefficient energy wise. Eg. an equivalent unit to mine might have $550/month.
Older condo's along King West (near Bathurst for example) have ridiculously high condo fees because they're quite inefficient energy wise. Eg. an equivalent unit to mine might have $550/month.
Felino
Banned
I pay $420 a month in condo fees, not including utilities. This is for a 695 sq ft unit. In the end, I pay around $470 a month for a small unit.
I think condos are a rip-off and the builders are holding most of the cards. For example, our builder didn't tell us that they weren't buying the mechanical guts of the building. In other words, they leased it and passed the cost on to us. That means somewhere in the $420 a month I pay is buried the lease for the buildings mechanical infrastructure.
The worst part? The builder negotiated a 10% interest rate when they leased!! I wonder which relative got the commission on that bank sale! It's criminal. I can go on and on. There are things that the builder got away with simply because they're allowed to.
Don't buy a condo, too much is out of your control. You're better off buying a house and renting out a room or two.
I think condos are a rip-off and the builders are holding most of the cards. For example, our builder didn't tell us that they weren't buying the mechanical guts of the building. In other words, they leased it and passed the cost on to us. That means somewhere in the $420 a month I pay is buried the lease for the buildings mechanical infrastructure.
The worst part? The builder negotiated a 10% interest rate when they leased!! I wonder which relative got the commission on that bank sale! It's criminal. I can go on and on. There are things that the builder got away with simply because they're allowed to.
Don't buy a condo, too much is out of your control. You're better off buying a house and renting out a room or two.
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Granny
Active Member
You get what you pay for.
That is about what it all boils down to.
If your building has your maintenance fee at whatever it is, then you are paying your fair share to maintain that whole building. The reserve portion for future expensive repairs is simply a common sense responsible thing to do. It is what the average homeowner should do but of course doesn't.
If you choose not to use the common facilities like the pool, gym, theatre, or whatever, well, you knew they were there when you bought the condo.
There are no nasty little gnomes hiding in your building and spending your maintenance fees. Ever cent is always accounted for. These are the plain and simple facts. The only gripe anyone can ever have is if they they feel that the reserve fund is too fat. It always is for some people until some huge catastropic unexpected repair is required. If a an extra surcharge is dumped on the condo owners to cover off the balance of a huge bill, these are usually the same people who will bitch that the reserve should have been larger.
Cheaper to live in a house? Go ahead. Do your own shoveling, lawnmowing, renovating, swimming pool maintenace(a biggie, believe me), and general upgrading and replacement(roof, windows, doors, furnace, airconditioner etc) . Pay all your own utility and unexpected major repair bills (and you will have them). Put in your own security sytem. If this sounds like the lifestyle you yearn for than that is where you belong.
While you are bragging to people about all the money you are saving over living in a condo, you will be scratching your head wondering why you don't seem to have a whole lot of extra money in your pocket.
I've lived it both ways several times as circumstances deemed fit in my life. Guess what. Neither way is cheaper. It's about personal preference and lifestyle. What tastes better for you? An apple or an orange. How do you argue about the logic of one over the other?
You get what you pay for.
That is about what it all boils down to.
If your building has your maintenance fee at whatever it is, then you are paying your fair share to maintain that whole building. The reserve portion for future expensive repairs is simply a common sense responsible thing to do. It is what the average homeowner should do but of course doesn't.
If you choose not to use the common facilities like the pool, gym, theatre, or whatever, well, you knew they were there when you bought the condo.
There are no nasty little gnomes hiding in your building and spending your maintenance fees. Ever cent is always accounted for. These are the plain and simple facts. The only gripe anyone can ever have is if they they feel that the reserve fund is too fat. It always is for some people until some huge catastropic unexpected repair is required. If a an extra surcharge is dumped on the condo owners to cover off the balance of a huge bill, these are usually the same people who will bitch that the reserve should have been larger.
Cheaper to live in a house? Go ahead. Do your own shoveling, lawnmowing, renovating, swimming pool maintenace(a biggie, believe me), and general upgrading and replacement(roof, windows, doors, furnace, airconditioner etc) . Pay all your own utility and unexpected major repair bills (and you will have them). Put in your own security sytem. If this sounds like the lifestyle you yearn for than that is where you belong.
While you are bragging to people about all the money you are saving over living in a condo, you will be scratching your head wondering why you don't seem to have a whole lot of extra money in your pocket.
I've lived it both ways several times as circumstances deemed fit in my life. Guess what. Neither way is cheaper. It's about personal preference and lifestyle. What tastes better for you? An apple or an orange. How do you argue about the logic of one over the other?
You get what you pay for.
Felino
Banned
You're a liar. Are you involved in real estate?
Granny
Active Member
w.ll.am
Active Member
The only caveat to this is that if you were to save for a rainy day as a home owner for the years you live there and sell then you get to keep your money. The rainy day money for a condo is gone. If you are just switching from condo to condo it all works out in the end but if you switch from condo to house you lose that emergency money.