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Toronto CityPlace: Montage + Neo (Concord Adex, 47 + 16s, KPMB)

gei said:
yep... this development isn't even REMOTELY finished. I'd hold off my judgement for now.

Also the canyon effect once you exit from the gardiner onto spadina is becoming quite impressive. It used to be once you exited onto spadina you felt you still had to drive a bit to actually get into "downtown". Now you feel like you're right in it immediately.
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Huh? The feeling I get driving this stretch is 'Who the hell would want to live in that ghetto? That's not a neighborhood, it is an Eastern European Housing Bloc circa 200-'.

It works ok for now because the occupants are very young renters excited to be the first occupants of the units. Let's see how pleasant this place is at the turn of the next decade.
 
investor, I will give you one thing: you are consistent....:rolleyes:
 
HiRiser said:
I must admit that walking down Spadina through the stretch of Condos is very uncomfortable...even on a beautiful sunny day. However driving down that stretch of Spadina at night, there is a sense of awe at these tall giants all lit up. I agree with most that lots more should have been done to address how these buildings meet the street.
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This is also due in large part to the lack of focus on urban planning or streetscaping in Toronto. Grand boulevards do not necessarily have to be forbidding canyonways, if an effort is made to make them more pedestrian-friendly. Adding street-level retail will not accomplish this alone. Wide, shady medians and tree-lined sidewalks, and decent lighting and street furniture can totally change the feel of the space at ground level. Heck, why not through in a little statuary, or a fountain or two?! With a canyon of towers rising above we could actually have the workings of another University Avenue-type grand artery for the west side of downtown.
 
investor said:
Huh? The feeling I get driving this stretch is 'Who the hell would want to live in that ghetto? That's not a neighborhood, it is an Eastern European Housing Bloc circa 200-'.
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Bingo. Driving through an area is very different than being in it and actually experiencing it.

Like I've said many times already, most people who complain about this development seem to be people who just drive past it occasionally and know nothing about it.
 
I actually admire the work that the Concord developers are doing in that stretch of land. What other developer is reserving 50% of the development land for a parkland system? Just remember what the area used to be and what it will eventually become in the next few years.
 
Blank slate, oh please... Considering the project is boxed in by a 6 lane roadway on one side, a huge canyon of train tracks on the other and a monster elevated highway on the other, this has been far from a mediocre project. You’ll also see this project take a new dimension when Fort York boulevard will finally stretch between Bathurst and Spadina flanked by a massive park.

As for this particular project, it has been mostly true to KPMB's design (minus the brick on Montage)... I doubt KPMB was the cheapest firm that Concord could have worked with as they do seem to be popular and popular.
 
aiekon said:
I actually admire the work that the Concord developers are doing in that stretch of land. What other developer is reserving 50% of the development land for a parkland system? Just remember what the area used to be and what it will eventually become in the next few years.
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Although, I'm sure it was a requirement on the part of city planners, not a goodwill gesture on behalf of Concord.
 
gei said:
Bingo. Driving through an area is very different than being in it and actually experiencing it.

Like I've said many times already, most people who complain about this development seem to be people who just drive past it occasionally and know nothing about it.
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I've through CP many, many times. The problem I find is that it gives nothing back to the City. The only time you see people walking around the area is when there is something happening at the SkyDome. It is a large swath of land that is not built at a pedestrian scale.

The Park is a S.37 agreement, as are the future affordable housing buildings and community centre. I have more hope for CP west of Spadina, but unless they actually get the bridge built across the railway tracks to Portland St., I see very few people who don't live in the CP buildings visiting the park and comm. centre.

I don't blame Concord entirely. It is also the City and the legislature in place to not force Concord to build better. With the Concord Pacific development in Vancouver as an example, Concord is capable of doing better, they just didn't have to.

But who knows what the West will bring when all is done.
 
aiekon said:
I actually admire the work that the Concord developers are doing in that stretch of land. What other developer is reserving 50% of the development land for a parkland system? Just remember what the area used to be and what it will eventually become in the next few years.
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Park is less than 50% of the development, and is a s.37 height and density bonus, among others. We all know what the area was like and I am glad that someone was able make this huge transformation and I commend them for that. It's just that there was so much more potential that was lost. How about an office tower or two? How about a pedestrian bridge across Spadina? It will not become St. Jamestown Redux, but more like MCC (imo).
 
It boggles my mind how people refer to this as a "prime" oppurtunity that was wasted. We aren't talking about thousands of square feet of desirable real estate in the middle of the downtown core here... we're talking about a deserted wasteland sandwiched between railway tracks and a highway... which was on the outskirts of the core to begin with.

I still feel like the area has a ways to go. I'd be happy to revisit this conversation after the park is completed, along with the grocery store, school, daycare, and other little stores (lcbo, etc).
 
Ok................

Can someone please explain to me why Cityplace should be considered a ghetto? Especially considering that the towers are new and most of the later phases haven't even been completed yet?
 
Ask Investor. Apparently, he has no clue what a 'real' ghetto is. And I mean the ones where stopping at a red light can potentially be a risk to your livelihood.
 
So the initial comments on CityPlace were that it was too "Vancouver", the street wall scale was too short the buildings didn't butt up to the street enough, etc.

Now, after changes to make the project reflect Toronto, it's too massive, not built at a pedestrian scale.
 
rudeboie said:
Ask Investor. Apparently, he has no clue what a 'real' ghetto is. And I mean the ones where stopping at a red light can potentially be a risk to your livelihood.
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It's a ghetto-to-be. It is loaded with absentee owners and flippers who could give a shi*t about the condition of the project and the area long term. It is an enormous eye sore that only brings down the appeal of Toronto. It should have been designated as the future home of Toronto's NFL team and we'd all be celebrating the innovative and exciting new design.
 
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