City Workers Strike 2009

[W. K. Lis]

Unions are really needed in China, India, and other countries that exploit their workers at near slave wages and terrible working conditons. Of course, companies like Walmart wouldn't like that, since those goods produced from those countries are what make those companies so successful.
Unfortunately, unions are hard to get established in China, since it is a worker's paradise, and the government says unions are not needed.

 

[unimaginative2]

Not just China and India. Unions are needed right here in private businesses, especially in the service sector, that exploit their full-time workers with abysmal wages and virtually no benefits, and then use that advantage to drive more socially-minded employers out of business.

 

[Redroom Studios]

^^^ I'm sorry but I dont see that as being the case. The labor market along with everything in this world is very much a balancing act. If certain employers underpay, they will have a lower standard of worker, thus giving them substandard products or sevices, resulting in a reduced market share and profits. Companies that pay above average wages will tend to attract and keep a higher caliber of employee and if the employer is also socially conscious will tend to keep those workers in a happier and more productive state of mind. Certainly there are segments of the economy that have notoriously low profit margins and must put bottom line considerations first. I think there is a happy medium between somewhere between what unions are able to demand and what employers would like to get away with. I would say that the majority of jobs fall into that category, otherwise we would have chaos in our labour markets... and likely a dysfunctional or stunted economy / society. (think Cuba where farmers are the highest paid workers as determined by government dictate) Or, in this case we end up with guaranteed budget deficits for the foreseeable future...

I'm just trying to be a realist and I find that the older I get, the less political I am. Everything in the world ends up being a balancing act... if either side gets too much of an upper hand the system will fall apart. And in the end we all have freedom of choice about where we choose to work. If you arent happy, find something better. This is the age of the individual after all.

 

[boomix]

I grew up in eastern Europe and whenever I slacked off in school my mother threatened me by saying "If you don't do good in school you will end up picking up trash for living.".

Now I have to ask all those who are for overpaying of unskilled labour. When did garbage collection become glorified profession?

Its garbage and you're picking it up because somewhere in the past, you've fucked up your life and ran out of job selections. It is not something someone should look at think "Damn! They pay that much for that kind of work? Let me get in on that."

I would write more on the subject but it has all been said before.

 

[Alex S]

Now I have to ask all those who are for overpaying of unskilled labour. When did garbage collection become glorified profession?

Its garbage and you're picking it up because somewhere in the past, you've fucked up your life and ran out of job selections. It is not something someone should look at think "Damn! They pay that much for that kind of work? Let me get in on that."

Amen

 

[Filip]

I grew up in eastern Europe and whenever I slacked off in school my mother threatened me by saying "If you don't do good in school you will end up picking up trash for living.".

Now I have to ask all those who are for overpaying of unskilled labour. When did garbage collection become glorified profession?

Its garbage and you're picking it up because somewhere in the past, you've fucked up your life and ran out of job selections. It is not something someone should look at think "Damn! They pay that much for that kind of work? Let me get in on that."

I would write more on the subject but it has all been said before.

Mine too.. mine too

 

[Seymour]

That's not the general sentiment though, you're not paying attention.

I know its not the general sentiment, and that is very distressing to me.

I was watching the city council debate and it was horrifying how unbelieveably petty it all was. Stintz, Minnan Wong & Ootes are diabolical (and that is not a compliment).

Torontonians have turned against their mayor (who has represented Toronto in an incredible way on the world stage in addition to all the other great things he's done for the city, up until the strike happened) the unions have turned against the mayor, Torontonians have turned against unions....it's terrible every way you look at it.

 

[Whoaccio]

I know its not the general sentiment, and that is very distressing to me.

I was watching the city council debate and it was horrifying how unbelieveably petty it all was. Stintz, Minnan Wong & Ootes are diabolical (and that is not a compliment).

Torontonians have turned against their mayor (who has represented Toronto in an incredible way on the world stage in addition to all the other great things he's done for the city, up until the strike happened) the unions have turned against the mayor, Torontonians have turned against unions....it's terrible every way you look at it.

Ohh come on, isn't that just a little bit too saccharine for even the biggest Miller fanboy? Ignoring the point that representing Toronto on a world stage is somewhere behind wrestling a bear on the list of the Mayor of Toronto's responsibilities, its not "terrible every way you look at it" that most Torontonians are angry at Miller or CUPE. I somehow suspect you wouldn't be bemoaning the tragedy of Stephen Harper's poll numbers dropping or the general mistrust of Goldman Sachs employees, but people complaining about freeloading unions getting a bit of flack in Council and the Mayor being questioned on his performance is some kind of tragedy? Get real.

 

[Seymour]

Ohh come on, isn't that just a little bit too saccharine for even the biggest Miller fanboy? Ignoring the point that representing Toronto on a world stage is somewhere behind wrestling a bear on the list of the Mayor of Toronto's responsibilities, its not "terrible every way you look at it" that most Torontonians are angry at Miller or CUPE. I somehow suspect you wouldn't be bemoaning the tragedy of Stephen Harper's poll numbers dropping or the general mistrust of Goldman Sachs employees, but people complaining about freeloading unions getting a bit of flack in Council and the Mayor being questioned on his performance is some kind of tragedy? Get real.

Since when are the unions freeloading? Those people pay union dues, in each paycheque they get - $$ is deducted for union dues, and among other things, they collectively save $$ so that when & if a legal strike situation happens, they get some strike pay (why is that so terrible, they're working together) re: the sick days, they've already been bought & paid for by the union members, it's so weird that its seen largely as something that needs to be removed....the overarching attitude is that these 'garbage pickers" (but we know it's more than that, also public health nurses, children caregivers, parks & rec etc) shouldn't get these privileges because those who work in the private sector don't get certain benefits/privileges....it's the attitude: " I don't get that so let's take it away from them" that bothers me. I would prefer the attitude: "hey they have that benefit - what can we do to work towards a more equitable work force where everyone can have access to certain benefits" but NOOOOO the economy trumps it all doesn't it. The all pervasive economy (which supercedes even the physical biospehere) is bad - so let's pick on the lowest common denominator, let's take away from the labourers, from the garbage pickers. Let's remove their privileges, Yeah.

 

[Seymour]

Ohh come on, isn't that just a little bit too saccharine for even the biggest Miller fanboy? Ignoring the point that representing Toronto on a world stage is somewhere behind wrestling a bear on the list of the Mayor of Toronto's responsibilities, its not "terrible every way you look at it" that most Torontonians are angry at Miller or CUPE. I somehow suspect you wouldn't be bemoaning the tragedy of Stephen Harper's poll numbers dropping or the general mistrust of Goldman Sachs employees, but people complaining about freeloading unions getting a bit of flack in Council and the Mayor being questioned on his performance is some kind of tragedy? Get real.

So despite everyting - I still support Miller and I think he did the best he could in an unfortunate situation.
I'm still voting for him.

 

[slowtyper]

Torontonians have turned against their mayor (who has represented Toronto in an incredible way on the world stage in addition to all the other great things he's done for the city, up until the strike happened) the

ha..ha..ha
Please elaborate!

 

[Glen]

What it proves is that Toronto's garbage collection is cheaper than average for the province. Could it be cheaper if it were contracted out? Perhaps, but we aren't being gouged by a garbage system greatly out of whack with the rest of the province.

While higher density may mean that Toronto's garbage should be cheaper, there are factors that would make collection more expensive in Toronto. For instance, cost of living is higher here than anywhere else in Canada. The average cost of living in London is 33% cheaper than Toronto. Wages are thus higher in Toronto and it is reasonable to expect garbage workers to be paid more here.

I wonder if the figures are net of the yellow bag income.

 

[kEiThZ]

Since when are the unions freeloading?

Setting aside the details of the compensation and benefits issue, when a worker is half as productive as his counterpart but gets paid significantly more and then demands the right to maintain benefits he/she has and get a raise that's above inflation during a recession, that's freeloading. What do you think would have happened if a private sector union had pulled this stunt with their employer?

So despite everyting - I still support Miller and I think he did the best he could in an unfortunate situation.
I'm still voting for him.

I hope you do. If a candidate with a modicum of credibility and political acumen comes through, Miller will need all the help he can get...especially if he can't convince the province to bankroll his fiscal indiscipline forcing him to cut deeply or raise taxes sharply (or both).

Do you really think the public will side with the unions (and the union friendly candidate) next year if there's a 5-10% property tax hike combined with a doubling of the plate registration charge, fee hikes for parks and rec, and maybe a repeat of his previous boneheaded threat to close the Sheppard Subway (would love to see how that'll go down now that the province is paying for such a massive expansion of the TTC....helloooo expropriation)

ha..ha..ha
Please elaborate!

There was the C20 gambit. Other than that, I sincerely hope Miller's not spending too much time roaming around the globe. That's the Foreign Minister's job.

 

[AGTO]

they collectively save $$ so that when & if a legal strike situation happens, they get some strike pay

...because they're all about upholding the law?
Yet, once they're in a "legal strike position", they illegally detain taxpayers while illegally picketing the parks, then cry when it's suggested that they should be prosecuted.

 

[Seymour]

Are you people better than the people who are employed in solid waste management? The feeling I get here from you folks is that they do not deserve benefits, fair wage, unionized environment...maybe you would prefer the caste system in India. Hmm is that more to your liking??

Private sector union vs public sector union? I am not sure what you mean by that?? Any union working in either the private or public sector, if placed in a legal strike position has the option to go out and strike.

And David Miller is Chair of the C40 Cities group (not C20 wtf?) a group of municipal leaders across the globe which (due to the overall LACK of leadership by provincial, or federal or equivalent governments) have joined together in an effort to make a move on climate change. http://www.c40cities.org/