City Faces Fiscal Crisis

[kEiThZ]

City Sales Tax idea floats around.

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091105/091105_budget_chief/20091105/?hub=CP24Home

I'm furious and digusted when I heard this.
What is your take on this? Will they impose this City Stupid Tax (CST) on new homes and resale homes sales and etc?

I agree with it. The city needs to balance its books. There's only so much they can cut. And I am of the opinion that once they are truly forced to balance the books instead of running to the province every year, the NDP dominated council at city hall will finally be revealed to the public for who they really are. Rules like 'no privatization' and 'fair wage' (read: union wages) clauses will quickly go out the window when the council faces public anger over new taxes.

 

[kEiThZ]

Yes it's stupid ... they really want to be taking a % of the GST/PST (or new HST)

But that won't happen ... it's simple, increase residential propety tax 20% ... that will probably still make us the lowest in the GTA.

People who complain can move.

Agreed. A property tax hike is better since it's not sensitive to economic fluctuations....we've seen in the US how badly that can play out for cities that rely on sales taxes. A 20% increase though would probably bring in a municipal version of Mike Harris. I dunno if I'd want that.

 

[Paleo]

City Sales Tax idea floats around.

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091105/091105_budget_chief/20091105/?hub=CP24Home

I'm furious and digusted when I heard this.
What is your take on this? Will they impose this City Stupid Tax (CST) on new homes and resale homes sales and etc?

What's there to be furious and disgusted about? I'm all for reversing the ill-advised GST cut. I'm also of the mind that property taxes need to go up 10% like they have in the GTA suburbs and get rid of the transfer tax.

 

[GraphicMatt]

A sales tax limited to the City of Toronto would disproportionately hurt businesses, especially businesses located near the 416 borders.

Instead, the province should recover the two points in sales tax lost by the GST by instituing a province-wide Municipality Sales Tax. Funnel the money directly to municipalities across the province - everyone wins. (Except for people who believe that the 2% GST cut actually impacted their life in any appreciable way.)

 

[kEiThZ]

A sales tax limited to the City of Toronto would disproportionately hurt businesses, especially businesses located near the 416 borders.

Instead, the province should recover the two points in sales tax lost by the GST by instituing a province-wide Municipality Sales Tax. Funnel the money directly to municipalities across the province - everyone wins. (Except for people who believe that the 2% GST cut actually impacted their life in any appreciable way.)

There is no way a premier who's already got a reputation for raising taxes (fairly or unfairly) would raise taxes to give the revenue away to somebody else. Why should he take the fall for Toronto's city council?

A 1-2% sales tax will impact business but they'll just adjust their prices. Even for a thousand dollar plasma tv, we are talking an extra 10-20 bucks. That's arguably the only case where someone will drive out of their way to save on the tax. I doubt someone would switch grocery stores or dry cleaners over 1-2%...and that's providing the grocery store hasn't already adjusted their prices to be competitive with the 905. It just wouldn't be worthwhile to drive further to save $1-2 on a hundred dollar grocery bill.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Finance officials propose new and higher user fees
$50 charge for opening an account to pay property taxes, among fees being proposed by city finance officials.

A new $50 charge for Toronto residents and businesses opening an account to pay their property taxes is one of several fees being proposed to bring in an extra $2-million for the cash-strapped municipality next year.

City finance officials have recommended a mix of new charges and increases to existing fees, to be debated at council government management committee on Monday. If approved by council later this month, the fees will take effect on Jan. 1.

The move comes as the city scrambles to fill an operating budget hole estimated at between $400-million and $500-million next year, with departments told to shave 5 per cent off their costs and, where possible, raise user fees to generate added revenue.

“We will see more of that,†predicts budget chief Shelley Carroll (Ward 33, Don Valley East) of prospects for higher user fees in 2010. But she added that departments have also been told to “look for sustainable solutions and efficiencies,†rather than simply jack up fees.

The proposed new charges drew fire from committee member Doug Holyday (Ward 3, Etobicoke Centre).

“It seems like just another tax increase,†he said. “It's the sign of a desperate administration.â€

Committee vice-chairman Bill Saundercook (Ward 13, Parkdale-High Park) says he is “not too surprised†by the proposals and plans to support them given the city's budget pressures next year.

If approved, the city will bring in two new fees: $50 for a new property-tax account and $35 to transfer ownership of an existing utility bill for water and solid waste. Some cities already charge even higher fees for those services – $62 for each of them in Ottawa – with others in the $30-$50 range.

As well, the city would raise four of 27 existing fees for property-tax and utility-related services.

The new charges, some of which have not been updated in years, are intended to reflect the actual cost of providing the service, says Casey Brendon, acting director of revenue.

“Only the people who use the service pay the cost of whatever service is being provided,†he said, which eases the burden on other property taxpayers.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...pose-new-and-higher-user-fees/article1351673/

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

This song and dance with the City Budget is very old and tiring!

 

[kettal]

Seriously, what's so difficult about just raising property taxes like a normal city??? Who are they fooling with all these wacky little tax ideas?

 

[TOareaFan]

It just wouldn't be worthwhile to drive further to save $1-2 on a hundred dollar grocery bill.

Your absolutely right.....but those businesses right on the borders would suffer because the drive to the other side of the street would be worth it (assuming you were in the neighbourhood anyway).

I think it was in the 80's that the City of Toronto tried to ban smoking in bars and restaraunts but the surrounding municipalities did not.......there were instances of bars on the Toronto side of streets closing and those on the 905 side of the street cashing in.

Toronto is not an isolated island and, at the edges, it needs to be wary of impact that city wide (as opposed to region or province wide) changes can have.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

I think many residents of Toronto would support a property tax increase if government could show residents they would use the money wisely!

 

[Roy G Biv]

I think many residents of Toronto would support a property tax increase if government could show residents they would use the money wisely!

Exactly. 90% of the public will say things like, "Well, why are they giving themselves raises and renovating their offices??".

 

[nfitz]

Exactly. 90% of the public will say things like, "Well, why are they giving themselves raises and renovating their offices??".

Well raises are a bit questionable at this point ... but office renovation should be an ongoing task in any large organization; and quite frankly from the city offices I've seen seem to be having less spent on them than you see in the private sector. And cheaping out on fitting doesn't necessarily get you so far, I've seen that done before in the private sector, and 10-15 years later, it's getting to being redone (or even in 5-years with carpetting), yet if done properly fittings should last twice that.

 

[taal]

Media should be blamed a lot here ...

I can so mad when I here comments like this:

"Oh Toronto is raising property taxes again, you should move outside to Markham, Missi, Brampton, Newmarket ........."

When Toronto not only has the lowest residential tax rate <-and by quite a bit. It also has the least amount of increases year to year.

I point them out to this:
http://www.thestar.com/taxcalc

and they stop talking afterwords.


btw ... that's not to say I think this is good ... it's bad, we need higher property taxes - but lower for businesses ...

 

[kEiThZ]

Seriously, what's so difficult about just raising property taxes like a normal city??? Who are they fooling with all these wacky little tax ideas?

Exactly. I rather have a tax increase than get nickel and dimed with all these fees. A fee to register to pay property taxes? It's ridiculous in Ottawa and it's ridiculous in TO. It's one thing to charge a fee to discourage certain things (driving, waste creation, etc.). But it's an altogether different matter to slap on fees where the person is in no position to do anything about it.

Unfortunately, it's politically expedient to raise fees since they don't count as tax increases in most minds. Just look at all those who praised Miller for his small tax increase last year while a whole slew of new fees were brought in.

 

[Yoshimura]

I think many residents of Toronto would support a property tax increase if government could show residents they would use the money wisely!

Oxymoron

I am totally against property tax as it hurts poor people the most.