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City councillors wants to ban shark fin soup

I don't think the sharks would disappear from the earth either. But what makes sharks more important than seals. If sharks disappear, the ecosystem would decimate, but if seals disappear it won't affect the ecosystem? It seems kind of sensationalist.

I think these cute seals deserve to live as much as sharks.
baby-seal.jpg
 
AKS said:
I don't think the sharks would disappear from the earth either. But what makes sharks more important than seals. If sharks disappear, the ecosystem would decimate, but if seals disappear it won't affect the ecosystem? It seems kind of sensationalist.

I think these cute seals deserve to live as much as sharks.
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Sharks won't technically disappear but they're fast dwindling numbers are a very serious concern for the planet and people just don't get it yet. Any species that is threatened must be protected, however many governments don't like or believe that bothersome "science" when money, politics and greed are at play.
 
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I see no problem with cities banning shark fin soup. A movement has to start somewhere. The people will decide in the end if it's a ridiculous move or not.

Does anyone else think it's strange how we still see hunting wild game (i.e. fish) as a major part of our food supply. Imagine if our burgers came from people hunting down wild cattle. Of course the demand would exceed supply and the wild cattle would be eradicated. Same thing with wild fisheries. If the Chinese want to eat shark fins, why not farm them? I was in China in 2005 where I was selling fish feed to talapia and other fish farms - which is a huge business there. I know we have a sometimes poor view of fish farms, and prefer wild fish, but if we want to eat fish as the human population continues to grow, I think farmed fish is the future, and will best protect wild species (again, some will argue that the farmed fish present the greatest risk to wild species - and those folks won't be convinced otherwise).
 
Admiral Beez said:
I see no problem with cities banning shark fin soup. A movement has to start somewhere. The people will decide in the end if it's a ridiculous move or not.
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Well, my main issue here is that the City Councillors here don't seem to have a clue about this topic, and what's worse, did the exact opposite of what their own advisors told them.

This is not a city level issue, nor should it be. City Council should not be in the business of monitoring or determining what we can and cannot eat. It's simply inappropriate.

Does anyone else think it's strange how we still see hunting wild game (i.e. fish) as a major part of our food supply. Imagine if our burgers came from people hunting down wild cattle. Of course the demand would exceed supply and the wild cattle would be eradicated. Same thing with wild fisheries. If the Chinese want to eat shark fins, why not farm them? I was in China in 2005 where I was selling fish feed to talapia and other fish farms - which is a huge business there. I know we have a sometimes poor view of fish farms, and prefer wild fish, but if we want to eat fish as the human population continues to grow, I think farmed fish is the future, and will best protect wild species (again, some will argue that the farmed fish present the greatest risk to wild species - and those folks won't be convinced otherwise).
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I think farmed fish are the future too, but your last point pretty much nails it. I find it ironic that so many restaurants heavily push wild species of fish on their menus, while at the same time banning other wild fish species from their menus.

BTW, I will say yet again... The vast majority of shark fins come from commercial fisheries, not from live finning. If commercial fishing of sharks is legal, and it is, then shark fins derived from such commercial fishing should be legal, and it is still is in Canada. It's just not legal in places like Toronto, where city councillors have ignored the sage advice of their own advisors to block the sale of a product that is legal in Canada.

I think the problem here is that too many people equate shark fins with live finning, so they let videos of live finning could their judgement. Using that type of logic, we should ban beef because not all beef in North America is derived from slaughterhouses with proper government-approved slaughtering practices.
 
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Eug said:
BTW, I will say yet again... The vast majority of shark fins come from commercial fisheries, not from live finning. If commercial fishing of sharks is legal, and it is, then shark fins derived from such commercial fishing should be legal, and it is still is in Canada.
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I think the issue is not so much live fining, since either way the shark is killed, but is that many global shark populations are at risk. If China and the global Chinese communities would stop or curtail consuming shark in any form, the shark populations would likely recover. It's the same reasoning why the Canadian government closed the cod fishery, as the stock was being overwhelmed by demand.
 
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Eug said:
Well, my main issue here is that the City Councillors here don't seem to have a clue about this topic, and what's worse, did the exact opposite of what their own advisors told them.
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Kristyn Wong-Tam, who is Chinese, was one of the leads on this issue. Her father was a restaurant cook and she consulted with him (and others in the Chinese community) on the issue and the consensus was that shark fin soup is not part of Chinese "culture", it's simply an expensive menu item that Chinese serve for special occasions such as weddings as a show of wealth and success.

This is not a city level issue, nor should it be. City Council should not be in the business of monitoring or determining what we can and cannot eat. It's simply inappropriate.
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It may or may not have been, but the movement has worked it's way to a possible Canadian ban all the way to the House of Commons. City Councils banning this item for sale within their jurisdictions put the issue on the map and helped created awareness.

I think farmed fish are the future too, but your last point pretty much nails it. I find it ironic that so many restaurants heavily push wild species of fish on their menus, while at the same time banning other wild fish species from their menus.
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Some wild species are not threatened and some menus don't offer what they promise (see sushi) but I believe that the future is in fish farming.

BTW, I will say yet again... The vast majority of shark fins come from commercial fisheries, not from live finning. If commercial fishing of sharks is legal, and it is, then shark fins derived from such commercial fishing should be legal, and it is still is in Canada. It's just not legal in places like Toronto, where city councillors have ignored the sage advice of their own advisers to block the sale of a product that is legal in Canada.
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Can you please cite sources that state that the majority of shark fins come from commercial fisheries?
Legal advised City Councillors that they were walking a fine line on this issue, not their advisers, I watched the whole debate on the shark fin issue on channel 10.
 
Please tell me you're not trying to say she knows what she's talking about because she is Chinese and dad owns a restaurant. Cuz that's a bizarre argument to make.

And of course it's part of Chinese culture. To say otherwise is really quite moronic. It may not be integral to every day Chinese life, but that just becomes a matter of degree. However, that in itself is basically irrelevant. What is relevant is the appropriateness for city council discussion and hard science.

As for links, I provided a few earlier.
 
dt_toronto_geek said:
Can you please cite sources that state that the majority of shark fins come from commercial fisheries?
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Of course they come from commercial fisheries. Where else could they come from? Commercial fishing boats catch the sharks and either kill the shark on deck (either through suffocation or blunt force) and process the meat on-board, or cut off the wanted parts (fins, or whatever) and toss the remains over the side, where the shark will die, if not already dead. Either way the shark is dead at the hands of the commercial fisheries.

This is the exact same process for any other fishery. If you're catching tuna and processing it on board, you toss over board the parts you don't want. If the big issue is that the sharks are alive when tossed over the side, then we could placate everyone by killing them first?

For me the issue isn't fining, it's that the global shark population is reported to be in stark decline due to over fishing. Same as the cod, and many other species. This is why fish farming is the future for both humans and sharks.
 
Eug said:
Please tell me you're not trying to say she knows what she's talking about because she is Chinese and dad owns a restaurant. Cuz that's a bizarre argument to make. And of course it's part of Chinese culture. To say otherwise is really quite moronic. It may not be integral to every day Chinese life, but that just becomes a matter of degree. However, that in itself is basically irrelevant.
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As I stated she also consulted with the Chinese community in Toronto and her statement in Council was from the feedback she got, shark fin soup is not part of Chinese culture. I suppose it could be argued by some that it is.

What is relevant is the appropriateness for city council discussion and hard science.
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From what I've seen in "Sharkwater" and other programs on TLC, National Geographic Channel etc. fishing the oceans for shark fins seems to be a real problem and the science is in, shark populations are in trouble. There may be some propaganda buried in some of these shows but with millions of sharks being pulled from the ocean every year I'm convinced that this is a bad thing, and unsustainable.

As for links, I provided a few earlier.
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I went back and found one link on page one, it's a dead link.
 
AKS said:
http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/2008/11/03/harp-seals-may-be-extinct-in-two-decades-764
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No ... I mean real reports - not a report by an extremely biased organization. They seem to be no where near the endangered list. Even this extremely biased group says there's only 2 to 4 million of them, not the 5 million reported.

Given how much sealing had reduced in the last few years, and how abundant the species has been, even in the past when they were much more in demand, it hardly seems to be a huge issue. I'd expect the disappearance of the fish stocks would have more impact on them than anything else.
 
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dt_toronto_geek said:
Kristyn Wong-Tam, who is Chinese, was one of the leads on this issue. Her father was a restaurant cook and she consulted with him (and others in the Chinese community) on the issue and the consensus was that shark fin soup is not part of Chinese "culture", it's simply an expensive menu item that Chinese serve for special occasions such as weddings as a show of wealth and success.
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Um...

it only comes out in weddings and special occasions.... but it's not part of the culture?

That's like saying Christmas trees or wearing white for weddings isn't part of the anglo-saxon culture.... I think you're stretching it there.

FYI, Race doesn't necessary reflect culture. K Tam-Wong barely speaks Chinese, and doesn't read it at all.

dt_toronto_geek said:
Some wild species are not threatened and some menus don't offer what they promise (see sushi) but I believe that the future is in fish farming.
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FYI fish farming is not much better, if not worst, than the general fisheries industry. Yes fishing delete the stocks, but they don't create as large of a footprint through fish feed production, antibiotic/anti parasite use, and additional energy needed to heat a giant fish farm (if not built into the ocean).

you should look into that. General rule: Consumption = pollution
 
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