Church-Wellesley Village

[Torontovibe]

That's a pretty sad list of places to dance. When friends of mine come to visit, they always complain that Toronto has nowhere to dance. (for gay men over 30) Now with Cellblock closing, they will have no place to go. Funny, how in gay tourist brochures, we claim to have gay nightlife on par with the gay capitals like NYC. That's just a big lie. Our problem is a combination of zoning and the location of our village, right in the downtown core.

Montreal's Gay Village is in a very poor area, a good 30 minute walk from the downtown core, so it's not under the same development pressures. The Gay Village there has not changed much from when I lived there in the 1990's. When I go back there, I see very little change, except the clubs aren't as crowded and lively as they used to be but at least they're still around.

I think Toronto's Gay Village needs to move east to Sherbourne/Parliamant/Jarvis or even further east, so we won't have to worry so much about development. Parliament would probably be the best bet for a few new dance clubs. At least it's not too far to walk to, from the main gay residential core.

The good thing is, that a lot of the new towers are still attracting large numbers of gay men. I have friends who live in X condo, Radio City and a few others in that area and they tell me the percentage of gays in the buildings is very high. (I've noticed that myself, when visiting them) So the gay population is still very high and most likely, rising. I imagine most of them will continue to support gay venues & clubs. The internet can only suffice for so long but after a while, you need to get out, have some fun and meet real people. Nothing will ever take the place of a gay bar.

 

[dougtoronto]

^ I live on Yonge and Wellesley and my condo is 75% gay. I hope we can change the face of the Village. It is too tired and tacky imo.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

It's interesting how there seems to be two camps here. Camp #1 - the Village is outdated ("so 90's") and dumpy, a gay neighbourhood isn't needed anymore, a place of the past, and camp #2 - the Village doesn't change enough, not enough new restaurants, not enough bars, not enough dance clubs. So one group has no use for the Village but it sucks anyway, and another group complains there isn't enough to do in the Village and want more. Just observing.

 

[khris]

The village is a place that I think is still needed, but seriously out of date and needs some renovating. So many of the bars are awful and tacky. Look at Crews/Tangos. The place smells and hasn't changed it's decor in forever. Spend some money on your bar, and it will attract more people! Hire staff who know how to smile and not whip out attitude. Make the front of your establishment welcoming!
And yes, it's very sad that we don't have any big rooms to dance in that cater to different crowds with different music. It's either you go to a campy place like Crews/Tangos and dance to remixed top 40, or a place like Fly, where if you don't do E and hate tribal house music with some gay anthems thrown in for good measure, then you're SOL. It wasn't always like this. We had IT Nightclub and 5ive. They were great places to go where there was a mix of people and music. I really wish we had places like that today.

 

[cmcint01]

The village is a place that I think is still needed, but seriously out of date and needs some renovating. So many of the bars are awful and tacky. Look at Crews/Tangos. The place smells and hasn't changed it's decor in forever. Spend some money on your bar, and it will attract more people! Hire staff who know how to smile and not whip out attitude. Make the front of your establishment welcoming!
And yes, it's very sad that we don't have any big rooms to dance in that cater to different crowds with different music. It's either you go to a campy place like Crews/Tangos and dance to remixed top 40, or a place like Fly, where if you don't do E and hate tribal house music with some gay anthems thrown in for good measure, then you're SOL. It wasn't always like this. We had IT Nightclub and 5ive. They were great places to go where there was a mix of people and music. I really wish we had places like that today.

Yeah it really sucks not just for dancing but where do you for a decent dinner. I want to go this Saturday and not to Byzantium again and cant think of anywhere! King West is where I will end up.

 

[Dan416]

The best place for dancing in my opinion is Buddies. Of course it's not a real club.

So Fly has somewhere to relocate to? Where?

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Yeah it really sucks not just for dancing but where do you for a decent dinner. I want to go this Saturday and not to Byzantium again and cant think of anywhere! King West is where I will end up.

Must jump in on this one, there are lots of great places to go for dinner in the Village, and a few not so great places too.

 

[JasonParis]

Church St was never designated as a club area, meaning that 'dance clubs' were not allowed to open. Bars with dance areas could open, however. I am not at all sure what the zoning issues are or anything but I do not there was mention of it a few years ago. Kyle Rae at the time said if gays want to dance they can go to the entertainment district. It was at that point I lost my respect for him: send gays to the then notoriously violent straight club scene. Uh-uh. Sure. I am not sure what the rules are now.

I think only The Barn, Cell Block and Fly are designated clubs in the Village. It's not that you won't occasionally find dancing elsewhere, but everything else is a designated bar (i.e., the must also sell food if a customer requests it, have seating, etc). I believe these three were grandfathered before the whole ridiculous "only south of Queen rule" for clubs was started in the 1990s. Kristyn Wong-Tam has indicated though that she's willing to fight for variances on this for the Village though.

 

[Ryan_T]

Anyone remember Circa? Now that was a great place, too bad it failed.

 

[JasonParis]

The first year of Circa was pretty good when it retained Peter Gatien's overall concept. It went downhill pretty fast after though.

 

[JasonParis]

Some Village thoughts from (former) UT member Shawn Micallef...

A Little Tough Love

When you love a neighbourhood you want it to be better. Here are four ways my beloved Church Street/Yorkville area could be improved.

• Arguably the most important crossroads in the city, Yonge and Bloor is a crummy intersection, mostly because of the block-long Hudson Bay Centre on the northeast corner. Here the sidewalks are wide but the 1970s concrete behemoth — the kind of prominent building that gives a bad name to the unfairly maligned Brutalist style — presents an unlovable, nearly solid wall. No light escapes from the building at night so this stretch is also dark. It's a wasted opportunity. I'll often avoid it by walking underground, through the Centre's basement itself, where there's life and light. Knocking out these walls and installing some glass and street-level retail could fix this. Give us a reason to linger on those wide sidewalks.
• Around the corner, down Church Street, the problem is the sidewalks are too narrow and can't contain all the life there. Like a lot of Toronto streets, the sidewalks are too narrow to comfortably accommodate all the people who come to hang out on them. Toronto was never supposed to be a great city (that was Montreal's job) so it was built humbly. The Church Wellesley Village BIA (Business Improvement Area) should work to expand the sidewalks into the parking lanes. Businesses would likely object, fearing the loss of parking. I'm no retailer, but removing five parking spaces to make room for 50 or so humans to hang out seems like good math. If we took out the whole parking lane, imagine how many more people could linger in front of all those shops.
• Hang out spots in general are lacking here. Church Street famously had "The Steps," a place where people sat and watched the neighbourhood go by. It even became an ongoing Kids In The Hall skit. Those were bricked up about ten years ago in a very Toronto response to people organically gathering, so people find little curbs to sit on down by the BMO branch or the stairs at the 519 Community Centre, but a destination street like this could use a lot more.
• Church Street suffers from too many parking lots that haven't been filled in, as they have in other parts of downtown. The Beer Store is one of the worst culprits, set back far from the sidewalk across a sea of asphalt. Fill these in; the 1950s are over.

These are some of the big things. Smaller details, like figuring out what to do with apartment dumpsters in front of buildings and planting some street trees that won't immediately die can come next.

 

[DTowner]

The best place for dancing in my opinion is Buddies. Of course it's not a real club.

So Fly has somewhere to relocate to? Where?

Buddies is only good if you're 18-23 and like Katy Perry and Keisha.

I'm glad I was able to enjoy clubbing in the village and elsewhere during it's last gasp. If it wasn't for Grapefruit and WAYLA, though, I wouldn't have gone dancing anywhere for the past few years. Now GF is gone and WAYLA is STILL in the east end. Lol.

 

[DTowner]

There's also dancing on the weekends at Crews, Byzantium, Church on Church, and even sometimes at Smith. While none of these venues are like Fly or the Barn, there are still places with DJs and dancing.

Could it be these are becoming the norm? Smaller venues where dancing is not the main objective? Has the removal of dance clubs changed how we 'party' or has how we party changed coincidentally along with clubs closing? Do want to go dancing as much as we used to?

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Some Village thoughts from (former) UT member Shawn Micallef...

A Little Tough Love

The not-so-easy solution is to eliminate two lanes on both Church and Yonge Streets and make them both one way. Church Street south, Yonge Street north from Bloor to Front on Church and to Queen's Quay on Yonge. Sidewalks can then be widened and beautified with trees and patios along with properly separated bike lanes on one or both streets. Many businesses on both Yonge and Church receive their deliveries via the street (Yonge or Church) so two lanes must remain for deliveries. Yonge Street is a little trickier for when fleets of buses have to be deployed when there is a subway closure or lengthy delay. Perhaps relief bus fleets could be deployed along Bay St (it's a short block to walk) and carry passengers to the next subway connection that's operating.

Could it be these are becoming the norm? Smaller venues where dancing is not the main objective? Has the removal of dance clubs changed how we 'party' or has how we party changed coincidentally along with clubs closing? Do want to go dancing as much as we used to?

For gay men I think social media and hookup sites have taken a lot of the 'get laid ritual' out of going to clubs, dancing, parks etc. so perhaps smaller clubs and dancing venues is the future.

 

[Torontovibe]

Gay men might use social media sites but most people I know, are not happy with them. People still need to get out and socialize in person and just have a fun night out with their friends. The men I know who have the most successful social lives, don't use internet hook-up sites at all, they go to gay bars on a regular basis. Once you build up a network of friends, you always meet new people. That's why the Gay Village is needed. It's not about straight people making us feel welcome. It's about gay people building up a network of friends and having fun with them, then meeting new people through your friends. You need to have a concentrated, developed community for that to happen.