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China Earthquake
- Thread starter BobBob
- Start date
H
Hydrogen
Guest
You have to understand that governments can't impose aid on another nation. Myanmar is a telling example.
The Chinese government has every right to say thanks but no thanks, not right now, or to request specific types of aid once specific needs are determined. The latter is usually done on the basis of first understanding the scope and particularities of the emergency. It can actually be quite useless to fly in large quantities of materials that will end up either crowding airports, or have no place to be sent to. First off, an assessment of needs must be determined by the government. Typically these needs are quite basic in nature - water, shelter, food, medical needs - and it is clear that China has the capability to begin the process of allocating these resources. This effort inevitably takes time because of the size of the area and the populations involved.
Every country capable of offering aid has done so; the offers are done through diplomatic channels, and it is up to the country receiving the offers to decide whether the aid is needed or useful.
I don't see what your notions about differences between east and west have to do with anything. It is clear that you want to believe in something rather than to accept the actual state of affairs. Maybe you should understand a little more about how these things operate before you excoriate a country and its people on the basis of your limited perceptions. From what I have seen so far, in light of this disaster the Chinese government looks pretty damn organized and are mounting an effective effort.
The Chinese government has every right to say thanks but no thanks, not right now, or to request specific types of aid once specific needs are determined. The latter is usually done on the basis of first understanding the scope and particularities of the emergency. It can actually be quite useless to fly in large quantities of materials that will end up either crowding airports, or have no place to be sent to. First off, an assessment of needs must be determined by the government. Typically these needs are quite basic in nature - water, shelter, food, medical needs - and it is clear that China has the capability to begin the process of allocating these resources. This effort inevitably takes time because of the size of the area and the populations involved.
Every country capable of offering aid has done so; the offers are done through diplomatic channels, and it is up to the country receiving the offers to decide whether the aid is needed or useful.
I don't see what your notions about differences between east and west have to do with anything. It is clear that you want to believe in something rather than to accept the actual state of affairs. Maybe you should understand a little more about how these things operate before you excoriate a country and its people on the basis of your limited perceptions. From what I have seen so far, in light of this disaster the Chinese government looks pretty damn organized and are mounting an effective effort.
Conrad Black
Senior Member
Let's ask Iraq about that.
H
Hydrogen
Guest
Did Iraq suffer an earthquake or cyclone recently?
The excuse for invading Iraq wasn't aid, but to save us all from the fantasy of Iraqi WMD's.
The excuse for invading Iraq wasn't aid, but to save us all from the fantasy of Iraqi WMD's.
allanallan
New Member
hoho, so all the other peoples have 'limited perceptions', and I think by this you mean you have 'unlimited perceptions'. Good for you.
Just don't want to repeat what I said before, it's just that simply something like 1 million from a country as an 'aid' for such a tragedy is not really a matter of life and death, it's rather something diplomatic, symbolic. Of course China can 'handle' such a disaster totally by its' self, like in a similar earthquake in 1976, though at that time more than 250,000 died. So what is your point?
And are you feeling disappointed to see that the Chinese government is 'organized' and 'effective' in handling this disaster, that you feel not in the mood of showing you would like to help? Heck, the Burmanese military government did little, and you folks are outraged, the Chinese government responded so quickly, still you feel bad. What is your problem then?
H
Hydrogen
Guest
In 1976, China kept the extent of the earthquake damage and the massive numbers of deaths secret. Now, the earthquake is covered by the Chinese and global media, information is provided to other governments, and the evidence of Chinese government efforts is made quite visible. Presently, the government of Myanmar is suspicious of journalists, secretive about its efforts, and actually failed to warn a considerable portion of its population of the impending typhoon that it knew was coming. It helped make the catastrophe what it is today, and has since refused to take aid to bring comfort to its people - even though it clearly can't handle the disaster.
The difference between Myanmar and China is that China can handle its own internal affairs, has the capacity to handle its emergency situation. It now has a government that is capable of requesting and accepting aid if it is required. Myanmar looks at aid as a threat against the regime - much the same way China did in 1976.
Aid offers are sliding. Upon request or acceptance of aid, the numbers of dollars typically go way up. Just take a look at previous responses. Also note, the dollar value offered is not rated to Canadian purchasing power, but to what the Chinese can purchase with it. One million Canadian goes much further in China than it does in Canada.
You appear to be very emotional about this issue. Why in the world would you think that I would be disappointed by the Chinese government being able to handle their own emergencies? As for individuals offering unsolicited aid, it has been shown that in many instances such aid is actually useless. In the past, vast quantities of stuff has either gone unused, gotten in the way, or been discarded. Sending aid directly to family members in an affected area is different.
There are existing standards and practices with respect to emergency aid and disaster relief. They exist for a reason.
The difference between Myanmar and China is that China can handle its own internal affairs, has the capacity to handle its emergency situation. It now has a government that is capable of requesting and accepting aid if it is required. Myanmar looks at aid as a threat against the regime - much the same way China did in 1976.
Aid offers are sliding. Upon request or acceptance of aid, the numbers of dollars typically go way up. Just take a look at previous responses. Also note, the dollar value offered is not rated to Canadian purchasing power, but to what the Chinese can purchase with it. One million Canadian goes much further in China than it does in Canada.
You appear to be very emotional about this issue. Why in the world would you think that I would be disappointed by the Chinese government being able to handle their own emergencies? As for individuals offering unsolicited aid, it has been shown that in many instances such aid is actually useless. In the past, vast quantities of stuff has either gone unused, gotten in the way, or been discarded. Sending aid directly to family members in an affected area is different.
There are existing standards and practices with respect to emergency aid and disaster relief. They exist for a reason.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Speaking of matching donations, from the Globe:
Not all donations to Myanmar, China will be matched
JOAN BRYDEN
The Canadian Press
May 24, 2008 at 4:37 PM EDT
OTTAWA — The federal government's offer to match Canadian donations to disaster relief efforts in China and Myanmar turns out to be nowhere near as generous as it initially appeared.
Humanitarian groups have been disappointed to discover the bulk of donations they've received thus far – in the immediate aftermath of the disasters – won't be matched at all.
“It is certainly somewhat disappointing that we cannot count all the donations that we've received since the start of this crisis [in Myanmar],†said Kieran Green, communications manager for Care Canada.
“Nevertheless, matching funds certainly will help.â€
When International Co-operation Minister Bev Oda announced the matching funding May 15, she made no mention of any strings attached.
“Today, I am announcing that our government will match the contributions of Canadians to humanitarian organizations working in Burma and China,†she told the House of Commons.
“Let me assure all Canadians our government will do our share of the international effort and ensure that our help does get to the victims and their families.â€
However, details subsequently posted by the Canadian International Development Agency revealed the government will match only those individual donations received by aid groups between May 15 and June 6.
That excludes all the donations that poured in immediately after the devastating May 2 cyclone in Myanmar, also known as Burma, and the May 12 earthquake in China.
Typically, humanitarian groups say the flow of donations is greatest within the first 72 hours of a disaster. Mr. Green said that was particularly true in the case of the Myanmar tragedy.
“In this case, particularly, we did see the bulk of our donations that we've received to date come in in that very early period and they diminished significantly by the end of the first week.â€
Mr. Green estimated Care and its partner groups in the Humanitarian Coalition have thus far raised about $200,000 through private donations from individuals for the relief effort in Myanmar.
He said some donors have asked Care to refund their original early contributions so they can make new donations that will be matched by the government.
The Canadian Red Cross reported it pulled in $555,500 in private donations from individuals for Myanmar and $1.1-million for China, all before May 15. Hence, none of those donations will be matched by the federal government.
Dave Toycen, president and CEO of World Vision Canada, said his group received at least $500,000 to $600,000 prior to May 15, which won't be matched by the federal government.
In the last two major international disasters – the Asian tsunami in 2004 and the Pakistan earthquake in 2005 – the federal government pledged to match donations received by aid groups starting on the very day the tragedies struck, World Vision said.
Still, humanitarian groups are reluctant to criticize the government's response to the latest disasters, noting Ottawa is providing direct funding to various relief agencies in addition to the matching funds.
Ms. Oda pledged Friday an additional $12-million for relief efforts in Myanmar, in addition to the initial $2-million kicked in by the federal government. She has also pledged $1-million to the International Federation of the Red Cross to help in the emergency response to the earthquake in China.
However belated or limited, aid groups are hopeful the promise of matching funding will encourage a second wave of donations from Canadians.
“All in all, I still have to say this is a positive thing,†said Mr. Toycen.
“We know from past experience, when there is a match, it definitely lifts public giving. Even when it's further away from the onset of a disaster, our understanding with our donors is that people appreciate knowing that their gift in a sense is going to be doubled in its value.â€
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...524.wdisasterrelief0524/BNStory/National/home
AoD
Not all donations to Myanmar, China will be matched
JOAN BRYDEN
The Canadian Press
May 24, 2008 at 4:37 PM EDT
OTTAWA — The federal government's offer to match Canadian donations to disaster relief efforts in China and Myanmar turns out to be nowhere near as generous as it initially appeared.
Humanitarian groups have been disappointed to discover the bulk of donations they've received thus far – in the immediate aftermath of the disasters – won't be matched at all.
“It is certainly somewhat disappointing that we cannot count all the donations that we've received since the start of this crisis [in Myanmar],†said Kieran Green, communications manager for Care Canada.
“Nevertheless, matching funds certainly will help.â€
When International Co-operation Minister Bev Oda announced the matching funding May 15, she made no mention of any strings attached.
“Today, I am announcing that our government will match the contributions of Canadians to humanitarian organizations working in Burma and China,†she told the House of Commons.
“Let me assure all Canadians our government will do our share of the international effort and ensure that our help does get to the victims and their families.â€
However, details subsequently posted by the Canadian International Development Agency revealed the government will match only those individual donations received by aid groups between May 15 and June 6.
That excludes all the donations that poured in immediately after the devastating May 2 cyclone in Myanmar, also known as Burma, and the May 12 earthquake in China.
Typically, humanitarian groups say the flow of donations is greatest within the first 72 hours of a disaster. Mr. Green said that was particularly true in the case of the Myanmar tragedy.
“In this case, particularly, we did see the bulk of our donations that we've received to date come in in that very early period and they diminished significantly by the end of the first week.â€
Mr. Green estimated Care and its partner groups in the Humanitarian Coalition have thus far raised about $200,000 through private donations from individuals for the relief effort in Myanmar.
He said some donors have asked Care to refund their original early contributions so they can make new donations that will be matched by the government.
The Canadian Red Cross reported it pulled in $555,500 in private donations from individuals for Myanmar and $1.1-million for China, all before May 15. Hence, none of those donations will be matched by the federal government.
Dave Toycen, president and CEO of World Vision Canada, said his group received at least $500,000 to $600,000 prior to May 15, which won't be matched by the federal government.
In the last two major international disasters – the Asian tsunami in 2004 and the Pakistan earthquake in 2005 – the federal government pledged to match donations received by aid groups starting on the very day the tragedies struck, World Vision said.
Still, humanitarian groups are reluctant to criticize the government's response to the latest disasters, noting Ottawa is providing direct funding to various relief agencies in addition to the matching funds.
Ms. Oda pledged Friday an additional $12-million for relief efforts in Myanmar, in addition to the initial $2-million kicked in by the federal government. She has also pledged $1-million to the International Federation of the Red Cross to help in the emergency response to the earthquake in China.
However belated or limited, aid groups are hopeful the promise of matching funding will encourage a second wave of donations from Canadians.
“All in all, I still have to say this is a positive thing,†said Mr. Toycen.
“We know from past experience, when there is a match, it definitely lifts public giving. Even when it's further away from the onset of a disaster, our understanding with our donors is that people appreciate knowing that their gift in a sense is going to be doubled in its value.â€
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...524.wdisasterrelief0524/BNStory/National/home
AoD