Central Waterfront 1950s-70s

[bigdaddyhame]

here's a shot from the same series that highlights one of my favourite parts of the central waterfront (at the foot of Bathurst St.) from when I grew up in the 1970's.

the fenced off area in the middle of the photo is a kids' construction park where it was possible to spend part of your summer building just about anything you could think of out of an assortment of building materials. Kids would get together and make forts- some with multiple floors, doors and windows, paint them and then hang out in them... Such an awesome place. Unthinkable now, to put hammers nails and paint in the hands of young children, but it was oh-so possible back then. My brother and I absolutely LOVED going to this place.

 

[isaidso]

Construction was halted at Harbour Plaza due to the discovery of an old wharf.

Historic Wharf Detected at Excvation Site:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/06/26/wharf_a_reminder_of_torontos_transformed_shoreline.html

I'd love for Toronto to have that wharf and building re-created on our new water front as a pier. They're great for tourism. As Harbour Square is here to stay, why not re-create a pier in front of it? It would go a long way to mitigating the concrete wall/division it represents on the waterfront, create valuable land, and allow for continuity of the boardwalk.

Currently Harbour Square cuts the waterfront in half. People have to walk around it.... and not on the water side. A pier would fix that area in so many ways. We've pushed our lake shore south before, and should do it again here.

A new ferry terminal could be built at the tip of the pier.

 

[Goldie]

 

[guitarchitect]

Hmmm... s1465_fl0366_it0019 and s1465_fl0328_it0010 and s1465_fl0328_it0016 show how desolate/empty/pedestrian unfriendly it is - and all of those massing models and images of the proposed buildings show how the idea was to more or less turn the buildings' back on QQ/The Gardiner and basically form a wall so that the experience of the waterfront isn't "polluted" by them. The massing model with the green space shows this especially well - it seems like the idea is to develop the waterfront but not necessarily create a nice street experience, which was the critique about Harbor Square.

And just for reference, the Design of Waterlink/Pier 27 is actually quite different in its conception - the reason the bars are raised is so that you get a view of the water/sky through the buildings (even if the physical street-level connection is compromised in a few spots) - most of the buildings in that massing model are very clearly creating a courtyard on the water side and more or less turning their backs (massing-wise) to the street and Gardiner...

 

[mistercorporate]

Thanks for your efforts and for sharing those photos with us, Silence&Motion, fascinating stuff.

 

[junctionist]

Utterly OT - Personally I think Harbour Square can be improved - there is no compelling reason for demolishing the structure. Just taking a cursory look of the frontage along QQ, I can envision livening up that stretch by consolidating parking access points and filling in some of the "nooks" with additional retail; recladding and maybe taking up the 2nd floor of the parking structure to create a 1.5 height retail space to mirror Waterpark Place; and upgrade the stretch of the waterfront promenade around the complex to WT QQ level of standard. The entire Westin complex on the other hand should be razed to the ground IMO.

AoD

There's not that much you can improve without demolishing it. The parking lot podium could be reconfigured and reclad, but it would still make for a long block with limited access points to the waterfront. Long blocks aren't good for walkability. You can't have a grand public space at the most central part of the waterfront because Harbour Square takes up most of the block's land. It could be demolished if the building declined and the units were slowly bought up city the city. The city could also use infill in the harbour to enlarge the public space at the ferry docks.

In terms of the Westin Harbour Castle, at least it has an interesting facade of quality glass and floating concrete panels. It also has that unique circular penthouse structure, and its footprint isn't as big as Harbour Square's footprint. But at ground level, it's a bunker. I'd save it but open up the ground level to the public spaces around it and create a waterfront promenade along the water's edge around it.

 

[interchange42]

Why even ponder that the building might decline and that the City would buy up units in it? Sorry, but that's patently ridiculous. Since the condo corp will continue along just fine, and the building will remain a desirable place to live, the parking garage is going to be there, barring all-out nuclear war or similar, forever.

The only reasonable question, as has been brought up by others in this thread, is how might the dismal street realm be mitigated? Reworking the ground floor retail by bringing the units out somewhat, and maybe even adding a second storey or higher front to them, is likely to be the only improvement we can hope for. Once the RBC WPP III tower is finished across the street, there will certainly be an increased need for retail in the area.

42

 

[adma]

Agreed upon that; unless Toronto went the way of Detroit or Johannesburg or worse, Harbour Square ain't likely to "decline"...

 

[Zeiss]

It could be demolished if the building declined and the units were slowly bought up city the city.

DECLINED!!!!! You must be blinded by your hate. We do not have any budget problems, we have large reserve fund, the building is very desirable to live in despite your opinion. Your comment will be something to laugh about at the annual Canada day BBQ at our large roof garden.

 

[Uncle Teddy]

He said if the building declined. He didn't say it would and of course we know at this point there's no way it will decline.

 

[Silence&Motion]

Face it, most people hate Harbour Square because they see it as an assault on the public realm. Telling everyone about how nice its private spaces are will probably not sway their opinion.

Speaking of the public realm, here's another shot from the 1940s. The area had so much potential pre-Gardiner.

 

[Zeiss]

Face it, most people hate Harbour Square because they see it as an assault on the public realm. Telling everyone about how nice its private spaces are will probably not sway their opinion.

We don't expect you to like it, as I mentioned few times we want the north side of the property to be improved more than you do. But you have to face the fact that the building exist and will exist at the the same place. Your hopes for decline and demolition of the building are baseless. If you have any good idea how to fix the problem with the retail area you are welcome to share it.

 

[ttk77]

We don't expect you to like it, as I mentioned few times we want the north side of the property to be improved more than you do. But you have to face the fact that the building exist and will exist at the the same place. Your hopes for decline and demolition of the building are baseless. If you have any good idea how to fix the problem with the retail area you are welcome to share it.

I live in the other set of ugly condos just down the street from you to the west at Harbour Point (250, 260, 270 QQ West), so I understand how you feel when people indicate they'd like to see them torn down. I don't think they mean any ill will towards the owners though. It's just a general wish that whatever is there looked nicer.

 

[Silence&Motion]

We don't expect you to like it, as I mentioned few times we want the north side of the property to be improved more than you do. But you have to face the fact that the building exist and will exist at the the same place. Your hopes for decline and demolition of the building are baseless. If you have any good idea how to fix the problem with the retail area you are welcome to share it.

Just to clarify, I never said I want them to decline and be demolished. As I said before, I'd like the central waterfront to develop to the point where we no longer think of Harbour Square as its defining feature, and that I understand the desire to place community stability over redevelopment for aesthetic/design reasons (although we never seem to think much of community stability when we're talking about redeveloping poor neighbourhoods).

In the ideal world we'd probably find some way to tame the buildings at street level. A good start would be the redevelopment of the conference centre on the north side of QQ (which I'm sure is only a matter of time) and the removal of the pedestrian bridge over QQ. A public promenade going down the east side of the Weston and the complete redevelopment of the ferry terminal would be great as well. To think, there was a time when Toronto's ferry terminal had an indoor waiting room with actual seats!! Hard to believe that you could wait for the ferry without feeling like a refugee locked in an open air holding cell. (Although I do like the ticket booths - the original brutalist ones, not the new ones they built in front)

 

[Lone Primate]

DECLINED!!!!! You must be blinded by your hate. We do not have any budget problems, we have large reserve fund, the building is very desirable to live in despite your opinion. Your comment will be something to laugh about at the annual Canada day BBQ at our large roof garden.

I hope you're being facetious. "It can't happen here" statements always put ice down my spine. :/