jade_lee
Active Member
so if NATO supports it all is ok with you...fine, but it's not with me
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H
Hydrogen
Guest
You were being informed with facts to which you had chosen to be unaware of. It's a common and consistent practice of yours. That, or your petulance indicates that you can't inform yourself adequately.
jade_lee
Active Member
I didn't come hereto be informed by sarcastic little men like you....I came to voice my opinion based on the past 5 years .....as for quoting silly little articles or government briefs, please isn't that rather political on your part?
jade_lee
Active Member
"if you don't like the heat leave the kitchen"
jade_lee
Active Member
The nice thing is.....the future is not that far away. We shall see said the blind man.
Prometheus The Supremo
►Member №41+⅜◄
Member Bio
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2007
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- a strange reality, bizarro toronto
how do you know if hydrogen is a man?
jade_lee
Active Member
He reads like a man. Am I incorrect is deciding his gender?
H
Hydrogen
Guest
Are you so naive to think you could come to post your opinion and not be challenged on it? You reserve the right to critique others, but when it comes time to backing up your own assertions you hide behind the statement that you are merely mouthing an opinion, and that nobody should say anything about it. Tough luck, kiddo.
If you don't like comments on your opinions, then keep them to yourself.
As for quoting "silly little articles," are you making reference to yourself? And as for politics, are you not attempting to make political statements as well? Maybe you should inform yourself as to the more expanded meaning of the word political. Just a thought...
Based on your comments, this applies to you and your multiple one-liners on the issues discussed here. I've noted that you have still failed to state exactly what was supposed to be done on 9/11 with the existing regulatory environment - both military and civil. The absence of an answer suggests an absence of knowledge. You imagine yourself as a good critic, but when it comes time to offer up an actual solutions to very complex problems, you find yourself bereft of something informative to say.
And it's quite clear that you are gleefully rubbing your hands and wishing for failure. That way the suffering of others can be used to buttress your paranoia and your opinions. Yeah, you're a real humanitarian.
jade_lee
Active Member
It should be obvious to you by now that I totally disagreed with both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars from the very beginning. You can frame my opinions however way you wish.....you actually crack me up when you ask for better solutions to failures that have occurred in these irrational wars, my answer obviously would begin with the comment, both invasions were wrong! You suggest that anti war thinkers are pro terrorist, your insult is repugnant, your blind support of the Afghanistan war is just plain foolish based on nothing much other than what? A few days of visiting by politicians? An army that has risked so much with so little leadership? Shameful. Your school of thought will be less powerful once the Americans back away from the failures of the Bush Leadership. I have waited for this possibility for at least 5 years now. What has changed for the people of Afghanistan?
H
Hydrogen
Guest
Just so you know, 9/11 was not a war. It helped to precipitate military action. If you can't even get that right, it's clear your capacity to grasp anything more complex is in question. Otherwise, it's mildly interesting that your own ignorance is a source of amusement to you.
Nope. Never said anyone antiwar is pro-terrorist, but then I've long given up getting anything accurate from you. You might have noted on this board that I have stated that the pretext for invading Iraq (WMD's) was wrong. I have also stated that had Bush had the balls to argue his invasion on the pretext of getting rid of one of the worlds more repugnant dictators, I would have at least respected him for being honest. Regardless of the wrong-headed approach and terrible mistakes made, I think that the Iraqi people would prefer to be living in a democracy.
Your position all along has been to do nothing - about anything. Your position is that we don't understand the thinking of others. Who's thinking? The thinking of the Taliban and its totalitarian ideals that brook no questioning from men (because they sure as shit didn't care about females)? The thinking of Al Queda and its religious leaders who threaten and kill large numbers of civilian population, and pursue some retrogressive dream of setting up a theocracy where their word and their word rules?
No, none of that bothers you.
You are here, safe to question everything, safe to demand perfection even when you just can't even get your head around on how to define it. And in the meantime you get the luxury to hope and wish for failure.
jade_lee
Active Member
I don't buy into your armchair analysis either. 911 was an an attack, an act of war by people who felt America was their enemy. It's well documented.
The reaction to 911 is also well documented at this point. The action was knee jerk, not well planned out beyond dropping bombs with shock and awe and then we had Bush telling the world that the war was a victory in Iraq. Meanwhile back in Afghanistan we had the US forces joined by "not many" NATO forces and together they dismantled the Taliban (who by the way represent a rather large population in Afghanistan), forced them out of power if you will. But these "Taliban"/afghan people are lurking even today. As the troops move in the Taliban and other enemies appear to go elsewhere but they are never that far away and they appear ready to return once the troops move on.
When I think of people in power all over the world, they all have something in common, people tire of power structures and eventually in a democracy vote them out of power or in a dictatorship the people take up arms themselves. It's the same old sing song no matter what your political inclination to leadership is.
As far as your suggestion that I appear to offer nothing to the discussion of value, or in fact that I think the world should have not reacted to 911, you are incorrect.
America was able to convince NATO troops to go into Afghanistan but not Iraq, both invasions were foolish in that both have brought out the very worst of who we are as north Americans, I just wonder how many investigations into wrong doings you need to know about before you are convinced of the fact that our behaviour makes things even worse for the people we claim to want to help and not better.
I personally don't trust governments that are propped up by NATO forces or forces that are far less visible and far more dangerous when given power, like the CIA. Even our very own RCMP have been tested in this war on terrorism and in the case of Mahar Arar they failed and looks like fools, in the case of the air India bombing they showed their true colours as well.
One last thing, you people here are always claiming that you want "proof", you want references to validate opinions if you will, let me suggest that the failures of both these wars and the people who support them in that they refuse to admit to failure, will have to live with all that "collateral damage" as the death tolls reach irrational numbers out of all of this and the generation of young soldiers return to civilian life messed up and without a hope in hell of living without demons in their memories. The damage has been done, there is no better coping strategy other than an exit strategy. Buy all means support the effort to clean up the mess caused through funding.....that is how we cleaned up other messes caused and it helped.
The reaction to 911 is also well documented at this point. The action was knee jerk, not well planned out beyond dropping bombs with shock and awe and then we had Bush telling the world that the war was a victory in Iraq. Meanwhile back in Afghanistan we had the US forces joined by "not many" NATO forces and together they dismantled the Taliban (who by the way represent a rather large population in Afghanistan), forced them out of power if you will. But these "Taliban"/afghan people are lurking even today. As the troops move in the Taliban and other enemies appear to go elsewhere but they are never that far away and they appear ready to return once the troops move on.
When I think of people in power all over the world, they all have something in common, people tire of power structures and eventually in a democracy vote them out of power or in a dictatorship the people take up arms themselves. It's the same old sing song no matter what your political inclination to leadership is.
As far as your suggestion that I appear to offer nothing to the discussion of value, or in fact that I think the world should have not reacted to 911, you are incorrect.
America was able to convince NATO troops to go into Afghanistan but not Iraq, both invasions were foolish in that both have brought out the very worst of who we are as north Americans, I just wonder how many investigations into wrong doings you need to know about before you are convinced of the fact that our behaviour makes things even worse for the people we claim to want to help and not better.
I personally don't trust governments that are propped up by NATO forces or forces that are far less visible and far more dangerous when given power, like the CIA. Even our very own RCMP have been tested in this war on terrorism and in the case of Mahar Arar they failed and looks like fools, in the case of the air India bombing they showed their true colours as well.
One last thing, you people here are always claiming that you want "proof", you want references to validate opinions if you will, let me suggest that the failures of both these wars and the people who support them in that they refuse to admit to failure, will have to live with all that "collateral damage" as the death tolls reach irrational numbers out of all of this and the generation of young soldiers return to civilian life messed up and without a hope in hell of living without demons in their memories. The damage has been done, there is no better coping strategy other than an exit strategy. Buy all means support the effort to clean up the mess caused through funding.....that is how we cleaned up other messes caused and it helped.
H
Hydrogen
Guest
Get clear on this: before 9/11 there was no war on terrorism, no NATO incursion in Afghanistan. You contradict yourself when you use the word "reaction." That reaction was the military incursion that followed.
You constantly mix up Afghanistan and Iraq.
So what would you have done as a result of 9/11?
What do you mean by "bringing out the worst in north Americans?"
Again, you've deviated from explaining a plausible response during 9/11. And if you want to argue a point, please try write a little more clearly. Your mixing of points tends jam your ideas up and communicates an impression of confused thoughts.
You constantly mix up Afghanistan and Iraq.
So what would you have done as a result of 9/11?
What do you mean by "bringing out the worst in north Americans?"
Again, you've deviated from explaining a plausible response during 9/11. And if you want to argue a point, please try write a little more clearly. Your mixing of points tends jam your ideas up and communicates an impression of confused thoughts.
jade_lee
Active Member
you ask.....what should they have done in response to 911?
Not rushed into war with both Afghanistan and Iraq but instead they should have gotten their facts straight and then perhaps they would have had a meanful coalition to deal with those responsible for 911 and other related terrorist activities associated with those involved.
you asked....What do I mean by "bringing out the worst in North Americans"
Are you kidding me? Do I really have to rehash the failures we have all witnessed with respect to the North American's "war on terrorism"?
- poor war plan beyond their shock and awe strategy ....not enough troops on the ground, poor money management, serious civilian death, no exit strategy, copious amounts of lies uncovered with respect to what the military is doing in both Afghanistan and Iraq, extreme corruption in those so called elected governments now being propped up by America and her allies (NATO), serious criminal behaviour identified by the coalition troops, continuous propaganda to continue the mission that will likely become completely different in nature to save face in north America when he troops head home as they evenually will when the political structure here changes.
Am I making this stuff up? We all know I am not, as all this failure has been documented.....this is what happens when you rush to war and disregard all other options ie having meaningful dialogue with those who seek to harm others, to show the majority around the world what is rational and what is irrational behaviour towards directing change in matters that others feel is needed ....that was never really established prior to all the propaganda and even now we in north America continue to become more xenophobic in our propaganda rather than finding helpful solutions to problems that in reality exists in the minds of only the most extreme thinkers.
Not rushed into war with both Afghanistan and Iraq but instead they should have gotten their facts straight and then perhaps they would have had a meanful coalition to deal with those responsible for 911 and other related terrorist activities associated with those involved.
you asked....What do I mean by "bringing out the worst in North Americans"
Are you kidding me? Do I really have to rehash the failures we have all witnessed with respect to the North American's "war on terrorism"?
- poor war plan beyond their shock and awe strategy ....not enough troops on the ground, poor money management, serious civilian death, no exit strategy, copious amounts of lies uncovered with respect to what the military is doing in both Afghanistan and Iraq, extreme corruption in those so called elected governments now being propped up by America and her allies (NATO), serious criminal behaviour identified by the coalition troops, continuous propaganda to continue the mission that will likely become completely different in nature to save face in north America when he troops head home as they evenually will when the political structure here changes.
Am I making this stuff up? We all know I am not, as all this failure has been documented.....this is what happens when you rush to war and disregard all other options ie having meaningful dialogue with those who seek to harm others, to show the majority around the world what is rational and what is irrational behaviour towards directing change in matters that others feel is needed ....that was never really established prior to all the propaganda and even now we in north America continue to become more xenophobic in our propaganda rather than finding helpful solutions to problems that in reality exists in the minds of only the most extreme thinkers.
H
Hydrogen
Guest
No, I said on 9/11. You were spending lots of time criticizing NORAD. You still have not answered.
Over and over again, Iraq and Afghanistan are different conflicts based on different rationales. That should be evident by the different measures of support.
As you have referred to terrorists, what of them? No criticism from you for their actions, or for the ideas that underly those actions.
Your words. Hope you read them.
North America is largely an immigrant culture and probably the most exogamous in terms of outlook. There is a very different cultural attitude here than in Europe, and certainly a more different cultural attitude than that of the Middle East. So I think your charge on xenophobia as applied to the entire culture of North America is simply wrong and clearly lacking understanding. many people here distrust extreme views because these views threaten the stability of pluralist ideals. I don't think Osama bin Laden or the Taliban have an interest in an open and tolerant society. You keep neglecting this fact to such a degree that I think you don't comprehend it at all.