Cabbagetown

[Mot]

I see distateful self-righteous indignation but not in the OCAP photos.

 

[Dilla]

I see distateful self-righteous indignation but not in the OCAP photos.

Then you're not looking very hard; but I digress.

I will attempt to explain rather than poke fun at. You're right, I was being childish. The anonymity of the internet brings it out in me (as I'm sure you've noticed).

I'm bored with OCAP. They seem to truly find joy in pissing people off and are more into screaming than discussing. I know you haven't been here long, but these guys have a reputation going back a long ways and it's getting old. They used to be a lot worse, but they still leave a bad taste in the mouth of lots of people in this city.

Rallying against hosing prices going up? First off, they're not going anywhere but down right now, secondly, you may as well scream at the weather, and third there's tonnes of affordable housing, shelters and outreach programs in this area. I can't think of a section in the old city with more. It's just never good enough for this crowd. City's change, and as long as there's affordable housing in the city, there's no need to lament that a neighbourhood happens to be undergoing some positive economic growth. If done with some thought, this kind of situation can benefit the area as a whole, not just the rich. Cities change like this all the time, and we've only now just seen the thawing of the hottest equities/housing market in this country in a generation (maybe two), so that housing prices were going up shouldn't be shocking, particularly when we consider that this market is now in a correctional phase. Bottom line - cities change. In should not be fought, just managed. OCAP fights.

I am of the opinion that some good could come of projects like what's being attempted in Regent Park, but they hate it. I don't understand how it's not a disgrace to them that the government houses people in the squalor that's currently on the site. I believe that in such instances, a large factor in ghettoisation and the continuation of poverty is too much subsidised housing in one area, but anytime these sacred cows are touched OCAP comes screaming in and gets all "J'accuse!" on everyone they see not with them.

As previously stated, Cabbagetown has more than it's share, and rather than protesting there, why don't they take it to the NIMBYs who's neighbourhoods are too nice to have first generation immigrants and single mothers? Some more balance would help the impoverished more. Or hey, why not try and work with the powers that make these decisions rather than giving them the finger? It seems too many in these groups see that as selling out, rather than constructive bridge building.

Seemingly to OCAP, it is a zero sum game - what is good for the poor is bad for the rich, and vice versa. No exceptions.

 

[Mot]

I am still learning and like you I believe in the new regent park project is a better solution than the current state of things.

I do hear some really negative attitudes towards the poor here in Toronto that I've heard plenty of times from US conservatives but for some reason it shocks me when I hear it here. I personally know people who live in Toronto housing and they are working hard just like the rest of us. I like that Cabbagetown is diverse and wouldn't live here if it were like Forrest Hill.
If OCAP perserves that diversity that's cool with me.

 

[Dilla]

I do hear some really negative attitudes towards the poor here in Toronto that I've heard plenty of times from US conservatives but for some reason it shocks me when I hear it here.

There's pricks of every description everywhere. Expect them here. Canada isn't all sunshine and smiles by any means, as you're discovering.

I personally know people who live in Toronto housing and they are working hard just like the rest of us.

Damn straight. I'm behind them 100%, and have no issues with taxes supporting them. I just hope one day (for their own sake) they don't have to live in Toronto housing.

I like that Cabbagetown is diverse and wouldn't live here if it were like Forrest Hill.

I'm very, very, fond of Cabbagetown (hey, I started this thread), and much of my enjoyment comes for the grit and diversity and sense of community I've been unable to find anywhere else in this city. I don't want to see it change, but it will. No city is a monument, expect tourist trap cities, preserved as living snow-globes one can walk around within. Who'd want to live there?

Now, as I've stated we can work within the community to try and manage how this change will come about, or we can do something counter productive that makes us feel better, like point a finger at our wealthy neighbours (keep in mind here, I don't make a lot of money myself) and accuse them of running the poor out so they can have swimming pools, or whatever. I don't see this as helping preserve anything other than animosity. OCAP won't preserve shit, seriously. In fact, I dare say preserving the feel of Cabbagetown is not on their agenda at all. They would make everything affordable housing in the tradition of Marx, were they given reign to do so; this would certainly not preserve the area as it is. Nor would opening empty spaces to squatters, which they are absolutely for. I'm not sure if you're firmilar with the group, but some of them are quite extreme, and have massive, massive, chips on their shoulders.

Besides, I don't see where this perceived threat is coming from. Nothing I know of is changing all that much with the exception of Regent Park, which I think is good. Housing prices are contracting, and there are no other major projects scheduled, as far as I know. I mean, we're getting a Starbucks, but a dollar store just opened 4 doors down from it 5 months ago. That's sounds like the Cabbagetown I know. Poor and wealthy, side by each, getting along just fine without agitators trying to rile us up. There's room for everybody, and I'd love to keep it that way too; but this group does not get my support, and I do not feel their vision of what's best is correct.

 

[Roy G Biv]

I actually was right at Carlton and Parliament when they came buy.

I almost ran over two with my BMW... thankfully the traction-control kicked in, and I got them, allowing me to promptly return home and throw some $50's into my gas fireplace....

 

[Dilla]

I actually was right at Carlton and Parliament when they came buy.

I almost ran over two with my BMW... thankfully the traction-control kicked in, and I got them, allowing me to promptly return home and throw some $50's into my gas fireplace....

While it came in handy in this instance, you should really take the traction control off and drive like a man.

 

[Mot]

Very funny Roy!

Dilla, Just as you are passionate against OCAP I am equally as passionate against calling people "white trash" as I've seen in this forum, mainly because they are not people of means. I am really tired of people born on third base pretending they hit a triple in life. Many of these same people look down on others who are not as lucky. (No, I don't think you've done that personally here Dilla it's just a general observation)

Every group has extremists but I wonder what would happen if groups like OCAP didn't exist.

Cabbagetown is edgy and I applaud Starbucks and caution against Parliament St losing it's $1 store. Although I do realize progress is inevitable.

Compared to where I came from Canada is sunshine and smiles.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Come on Mot, white trash is white trash, as truely a Canadian icon as Trailer Park Boys. Yes, that's those born in Canada white folks sporting mullets, tatts, tongue piercings, guys with no shirts, worn-out roadie girls, swearing, shouting, sitting around on the sidewalks and making a general ruckus at the north-east corner of Wincester and Parliament.

I must admit I hate white trash. I mean, anyone who arrives in this country from wherever works like a mad dog to better themselves, only to see these lazy, fat pigs on their rollies, tattoos and mullets not utilizing all the advantages of being in Canada from free education right up to Grade 12, subsidized post-secondary education, and the real benefit of "White privilege",http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege.

White trash is a real problem in Canada.

 

[Hydrogen]

Damn straight. I'm behind them 100%, and have no issues with taxes supporting them. I just hope one day (for their own sake) they don't have to live in Toronto housing.

In the long term, I don't think the solution is (just) tax dollars for housing, but developing a means for these working people to acquire some equity in where they live (if they so choose).

OCAP is good at complaining, but their "solutions" tend to be "same old, same old" (as in more subsidized housing). It's easy to try and write other people's cheques, but it's much tougher to come up with solutions that will actually help lift people out of poverty.

 

[Dilla]

While I find OCAPs message too extreme for me to support, but it could certainly be argued they are a counterbalance for the groups on the opposite end of the spectrum to themselves. As you said, extremists abound.
I'm really not a big fan of any individual or group that comes off so convinced of their own moral superiority. They seem without doubt, which makes me nervous.
While I'm not a big fan of the group, I understand there's a place for them in the city, and as I stated previously, a lot of what I don't like about them has to do with what they were like rather than how they are currently. They were involved in a few "direct action" plans - read riots - about 8 years ago. Those antics have cause many of their former financial supporters (labour unions) to withdraw funding and association with them.

The $1 store is still around, and Parliament's got at least 4 (if you don't include No Frills ) of them between Aberdeen and Gerrard, so we're not seeing the end of "gritty" cabbagetown anytime soon.

It can be easy to get frustrated with some of the less fortunate. It's difficult to know what to do, to figure out who should do what, even if you feel no obligation yourself. Then again, maybe some people really do despise them.
That really is a shame. Poverty sucks, and I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy (even though I hate him soooo much).

At any rate, the cynical part of me wonders how many people from these rallies volunteer to help the poor and homeless, and how many of them just show up for the sexy protests to show to the world they're really into "good" and they think "bad" sucks.

Compared to where I came from Canada is sunshine and smiles.

Where did you come from, so that I may never go there?

 

[Dilla]

In the long term, I don't think the solution is (just) tax dollars for housing, but developing a means for these working people to acquire some equity in where they live (if they so choose).

I couldn't agree more. My statement was only to let Mot know that I do not have a problem with the working poor getting some help from the state.

OCAP is good at complaining, but their "solutions" tend to be "same old, same old" (as in more subsidized housing). It's easy to try and write other people's cheques, but it's much tougher to come up with solutions that will actually help lift people out of poverty.

Thank you for doing a proper job at explaining the OCAP situation. I feel a bit silly now, but thank you.

 

[Mot]

To give you an idea of where we moved from (Warren County, NJ), this is the man who represented my district in Congress.

http://shulmanforcongress.com/garretts-record/garretts-votes/

Scott Garrett – This Record? From New Jersey?

By the end of 2006, the American Conservatives Union had only given a “perfect†score of 100 to two members Congress for their lifetime voting record.

Scott Garrett was one of them.

Here are some of his most right wing views.

Scott Garrett has been a consistent supporter of George Bush’s war in Iraq.

Scott Garrett voted for drilling off the New Jersey shore, and in the federally protected areas in Alaska.*

Scott Garrett voted against the reauthorization of the Voting Rights Act which ensures that access to voting would not be denied based on race.*

Scott Garrett voted against requiring that HMOs pay for mammographies.*

Scott Garrett voted against providing health insurance to poor children (SCHIP).

Scott Garrett voted against the federal funding of stem cell research.

Scott Garrett voted for every one of the bloated Bush budgets.

Scott Garrett voted against choice for women.

Scott Garrett voted against the Head Start program.*

Scott Garrett voted against the recent energy bill which increases automobile fuel efficiency and funds alternative sources of energy.*

Scott Garrett voted against a crackdown on price gouging by oil companies.*

Scott Garrett voted against aid to victims of Katrina*

Scott Garrett co-sponsored a bill to support home schooling, and advocates the teaching of intelligent design in schools.*

Scott Garrett voted to support religious proselytizing by Air Force officials.*

Scott Garrett voted to delete references to global climate change in congressional legislation.*

Scott Garrett voted against funding treatment programs and research into autism and cancer.*

Scott Garrett voted to drastically cut health care funding for seniors and veterans.*

Scott Garrett voted to permit the interstate trafficking of dogs used in dog fights.*

Scott Garrett voted against child safety locks on guns.*

I am hoping my vote unseats the man today, but most of the people where we lived supported him just two years ago. So you see Cabbagetown, Toronto, Canada is smiles and sunshine in comparison. My partner and I would never have dreamed of showing affection in our own home there without the blinds closed. There were too many nutty conservatives with guns around.

 

[Dilla]

^ terrifying.

I'm glad you've found refuge here.

 

[Mot]

^ terrifying.

I'm glad you've found refuge here.

Thanks, we are too! I never imagined how much the move here would changed our lives for the better. Living in Cabbagetown is a big part of that positive change.

 

[Admiral Beez]

My wife and I also love Cabbagetown. After three years in Fredericton, NB we couldn't wait to get back to the neighbourhood. Our tenants were equally displeased to be de-housed, so they found somewhere nearby to rent.