News   Jul 31, 2024
 28     0 
News   Jul 31, 2024
 305     0 
News   Jul 31, 2024
 279     1 

By-Elections in Quebec

Dion is finished. His excuse that people voted for the NDP to protest Conservative position instead of voting Liberal is absurd. The Liberals are in a tough spot. If they dump Dion prior to the next election no one will take the party seriously during the next election. If they keep him, the next election is an instant write off that may oblitirate them to third party status.

I am not sure Dion is finished, I will believe that when I see it.

Yes, Dion's explanation was less than credible - if that was the case the Conservatives would have no chance to win ANY of the seats. At least he could come up with a better excuse.

Liberals will not be reduced to third party status, sounds like some NDP dreams -- just isn't going to happen

Still think they should have picked Rae.
 
His excuse that people voted for the NDP to protest Conservative position instead of voting Liberal is absurd

They voted NDP in acknowledging the weakness of the Liberals and their leadership. As a generalization, Outremont voters would have to be pushed long and hard to vote Conservative.

It also helped that Mulcair has a long history of public service in Quebec.
 
It'd be interesting to see the Canadian Liberals get into the same situation as the British Tories over the past decade: after eons of party leaders that had their inevitable turn as PM, a revolving door of no-hopes...
Forget British Tories, the Canadian Liberals will be lucky if they don't end up like the British Liberals, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_(UK)
 
Globe and Mail Editorial
Not the final verdict on Dion
September 19, 2007

Stephen Harper is a cunning political strategist. The three ridings in which Mr. Harper sent voters to the polls in Monday's by-elections are all in Quebec, a province in which the opposition Liberals are struggling mightily. Three other recently vacated seats - two in Ontario, one in British Columbia - would likely have resulted in Liberal victories, but the Prime Minister declined to call votes there. Mr. Harper cleverly set the Liberals up for a fall.

Of course, the Prime Minister could not have known just how bad a fall it would be. The Liberals were guaranteed to fare poorly in the ridings of St-Hyacinthe-Bagot and Roberval-Lac St. Jean, each of which gave them fewer than ten per cent of votes in the last federal election. But their defeat at the hands of the NDP in Outremont, a Montreal constituency they had held nearly uninterrupted since 1935, was a major upset. Coupled with the Conservatives taking Roberval-Lac St. Jean away from the Bloc Québécois (St-Hyacinthe-Bagot stayed in Bloc hands, as expected), Monday's result has put Liberal leader Stéphane Dion under the microscope. The perception is that while Mr. Harper has his party on the rise, Mr. Dion's is in disarray.

Certainly, there is cause for Liberal concern. The party's failed campaign in Outremont, and to a lesser extent its dismal fourth-place finish in St-Hyacinthe-Bagot, has only added to perceptions that were common beforehand. Its organization, both on the ground and at the highest levels, is in rough shape. There are few signs that the public, particularly in Quebec, has been inspired by Mr. Dion's leadership. And Mr. Dion's political judgment has again been called into question with the sound defeat of Jocelyn Coulon, whom he handpicked to run in Outremont.

But even aside from Mr. Harper's cherry-picking of ridings, Monday's votes - like all by-elections - were a poor measure of where the parties really stand. Unlike in general campaigns, the focus in such races is on local candidates more than national leaders - meaning the NDP profited to an unusual extent from the high profile of its Outremont candidate, former provincial minister Thomas Mulcair, just as the Tories did from having popular Roberval mayor Denis Lebel carry their banner. Voters in by-elections, aware that their selection will have little bearing on who forms government, are also more apt to register protest votes, helping the NDP in particular. And without having to run national campaigns, parties are able to flood individual ridings with volunteers - something the NDP did to great effect in Outremont.

With all of these extenuating circumstances, the Liberals should not take Monday's results as a definitive statement on Mr. Dion's leadership, as a parade of anonymous party members have suggested in media reports. He should be judged on what shape the Liberals are in nationally, not how they fared in less than one per cent of the country's ridings.
 
Forget British Tories, the Canadian Liberals will be lucky if they don't end up like the British Liberals

By and large, Canada is radically centrist. More recently, Progressive Conservatives were elected federally because they were believed not to be excessively right wing - but progressive in outlook. The NDP are still often identified as being socialist, and as a result, there is a concern that any NDP government would be defined by classical socialist ideology. I would hazard a guess and say that if an NDP government were ever elected, it would be because they would have slid much more towards what is tended to be perceived as being a "centre" position on specific issues.

Perceptions are hard things to break, but the fact that the Conservatives have been elected, and have lead a pretty uneventful minority government (hardly marked by excessive ideological acts of conservativism), they can't seem to work themselves into majority territory - even in light of such weak leaders as Dion and Layton (to a lesser degree). That change will only happen once they are more clearly identified with holding positions viewed as being more centrist, or roughly thereof. In other words, the Conservatives will gain more standing the more liberal they look.
 
I think Dion was the worst leader the Libs could have voted in, and now it's starting to show in the by-elections. They should have voted in Kennedy as leader who I think would have done well, or perhaps even Rae, regardless of his poor or unlucky time as premier. Dion was the worst choice, even than Iggy.

Remember, it was Kennedy's political maneuvering that put Dion over the top. And if Dion's really the "worst leader", doesn't that show that Kennedy has poor judgment?

I was a Kennedy youth delegate at the leadership convention he lost to Dalton McGuinty. Kennedy started way out in front and basically didn't gain any support on future ballots. There was then and still is a perception from the party "old boys" that he's not leadership material. And if the Liberals really get lambasted in the next federal election and turf Dion, I could see the party brass lay some blame in his direction. Now, if the Liberals form the next federal government....oh why bother even finishing that sentence.

Personally, I think Kennedy would a better fit in the NDP.
 
Remember, it was Kennedy's political maneuvering that put Dion over the top. And if Dion's really the "worst leader", doesn't that show that Kennedy has poor judgment?

Kennedy's choice was based not on what was best for the party, but what he thought was best for himself (IMHO). He was trying to line himself up for a future leadership run, and made his selection based on that. The result -- he might get that opportunity sooner than he probably thought.
 
Kennedy's choice was based not on what was best for the party, but what he thought was best for himself (IMHO). He was trying to line himself up for a future leadership run, and made his selection based on that. The result -- he might get that opportunity sooner than he probably thought.

I still think if Dion really does implode, Kennedy will wear it. In politics, if you're associated with a sinking ship, you drown. Unless, of course, you're a rat. They always find a way off a sinking ship. I used to be a big fan of his, now my love is lukewarm at best.
 
I would have to disagree. If you notice, Dion is really out there by himself. You rarely see Iggy, Kennedy or Rae in the picture. They are absent from the side of the leader who won't last. Kennedy has long Liberal affiliations and is not bogged down with a past like Rae, or viewed as intellectually rigid like Iggy. His conduct in the last leadership convention was the least contentious.

Kennedy's impetus to move into federal politics was his realization that national issues were solved at the federal level; the provinces only manage issues. As for Kennedy being of NDP material, I would also have to disagree. While representing the more left-wing portion of the Liberals, he is much less of an interventionist than would be assumed.
 
I would have to disagree. If you notice, Dion is really out there by himself. You rarely see Iggy, Kennedy or Rae in the picture. They are absent from the side of the leader who won't last. Kennedy has long Liberal affiliations and is not bogged down with a past like Rae, or viewed as intellectually rigid like Iggy. His conduct in the last leadership convention was the least contentious.

Kennedy's impetus to move into federal politics was his realization that national issues were solved at the federal level; the provinces only manage issues. As for Kennedy being of NDP material, I would also have to disagree. While representing the more left-wing portion of the Liberals, he is much less of an interventionist than would be assumed.

At the risk of getting too off topic....

I'm not sure i understand your last point about interventionism being under the exclusive purview of the NDP?
 
I wasn't suggesting it was exlusive to the NDP. If it appears so, pardons for the confusion.
 
I wasn't suggesting it was exlusive to the NDP. If it appears so, pardons for the confusion.

My pardons for hyperbolizing your point in a shameless attempt to provoke you. A conversation for another time.....:)
 
In case people were unaware, Outremont is basically the Montreal equivalent of Trinity-Spadina riding in Toronto. A lot of progressive voters vote Liberal or Bloc by default because of the sovereignty issue. It's likely the NDP can be competitive in seats like Westmount-Ville Marie and NDG-Lachine, as well as Hull.

Some have said Justin Trudeau could have taken it for the Liberals...my feeling is his candidacy would have driven even more Bloc voters to Mulcair.
 

Back
Top