"Businesses Fleeing to the 905"

[urbanfan89]

Insurance premiums are based on the factors you stated, but also on whether you drive to work or not. 'Casual' use is supposed to get a discount, although I am not convinced that is the case.

Doesn't matter. My parents state their car is for casual use but they drive on an almost daily basis.

Expensive bike paths? Europe and Brazil are paying nearly twice what we are for fuel and I don't see empty highways/streets there.

Once high inflation erodes living standards to the extent personal auto traffic falls dramatically, then we'll have a lot of bike paths.

I suppose you are being facetious about everyone going to the factories in their cars. Transportation efficiency was slain on the alter of cheaper goods at Wal-Mart a long time ago. The bean counters decided it was cheaper to ship 500 widgets a day to the plant by truck, rather than warehouse 5,000 widgets shipped by train.

Unfortunately not every store has a railway siding in the back.

I definitely support incentives to shift freight traffic to rail, but because the rail industry is private it will be seen as corporate welfare.

 

[TKTKTK]

Once high inflation erodes living standards to the extent personal auto traffic falls dramatically, then we'll have a lot of bike paths.

And a lot of free time to use them!

 

[Hydrogen]

Once high inflation erodes living standards to the extent personal auto traffic falls dramatically, then we'll have a lot of bike paths.

Yeah, then we can look forward to bike theft going right through the roof. Can't wait, can you?!


Some people have very weird wishes.

 

[urbanfan89]

Yeah, then we can look forward to bike theft going right through the roof.

So is the massive bike theft bust on Queen West a harbinger of the future?

Can't wait, can you?!

GRAND THEFT BIKE

Some people have very weird wishes.

Other people have even weirder perceptions of whether we can continue pissing away energy.

 

[Brandon716]

Taxes aren't always the reason businesses move around, just look at New York City. It serves as the business hub of America just like Toronto does of Canada, yet it has lots higher taxes.

Heck, many American cities even levy local income taxes (including NYC) in addition to property and sales taxes. So far as I know, Canadian cities don't get much of any sales tax back as its a provincial only tax, and they aren't allowed to levy income taxes.

I'm getting ready to move to Pittsburgh on a new job in September, and they levy a local city income tax in addition to state and federal income taxes.

Ironically, Pittsburgh's economy is actually creating jobs amidst the latest national recession where hundreds of thousands of jobs have been lost. And Pittsburgh ranks 6th in the nation for jobs located in the city as opposed to suburbs:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08216/901307-432.stm

This article talks about how Pittsburgh (in a turn of fortunes) has been creating jobs lately while the sunbelt has mostly been shedding them.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/business/s_580675.html

..just goes to show you industry specific job losses of manufacturing in the past aren't hitting the rustbelt as bad these days.

Not sure how Ontario is faring with its manufacturing base these days. The province seems well rounded though and isn't totally dependent on one job category.

I wonder how Toronto's budget would be if they levied a 1.5% local municipal income tax, kept 2% of the PST, and had their traditional sources of income including property tax?

 

[Hydrogen]

So is the massive bike theft bust on Queen West a harbinger of the future?

It'd get worse. High inflation means costs go up - presumably for bikes as well. Get it?

Other people have even weirder perceptions of whether we can continue pissing away energy.

And other people have weird views concerning the function of other modes of transportation. Add to that, it still is weird to wish for poor economic times in order to address one's hand-wringing worries. A bad economic situation does not promise good results.

 

[Brandon716]

Oh, in addition to the above, here's a list for Ohio to see what cities levy what income tax.

http://www.columbustax.net/Muni_List/MLPrintable.asp

In Columbus the city income tax is 2%
http://columbustax.net/Muni_List/taxrate_1278.asp

Cleveland's rate is 2%
http://columbustax.net/Muni_List/taxrate_1272.asp

Cincinnati's municipal income tax is 2.10%
http://columbustax.net/Muni_List/taxrate_1267.asp




Pittsburgh's city income tax is 1%
http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/finance/html/employer_wage_tax.html

 

[Brandon716]

Yikes, I didn't know this discussion would slow to a crawl after introducing the ideas.

I don't advocate high taxes, but Toronto seems to be only able to draw revenue from one primary source. While I'm hinting at a city income tax or a sales tax idea to get the city back on financial footing, I also don't think it'll cause more businesses to flee to the 905.

 

[Dichotomy]

If this has been covered before, please forgive me - but I believe Ottawa and Queen's Park have to sit down and structure Toronto differently. I would add the cities of Vancouver and Montreal to the list as well for special status. I am not merely talking about giving Miller more powers (God help us!), but a reasoned approach to capital and ongoing expenditures.
All 3 cities are magnets for a large influx of immigrants who have special needs, as well as a lot of the 'riff-raff' from poorer areas of the country. Our welfare rolls are higher, the burdens on our infrastructure are more severe and it is not fair that all those burdens land on the taxpayers of just those people living in the city.
It's all fine and dandy to get grants to build opera houses and what-not, but without a structured in flow of money from the Province and the feds, ear marked for specific projects, this annual municipal deficit/begging farce is going to go on forever.
Any business person knows you have to have a defined capital budget for future large outlays - and stick to it. Of course, the city also has to reign in the unions and their extortions every 3 years. Start contracting out a lot of services and let the unions compete, since they think their members are so efficient and well trained. I'd wager 10-15% in cost savings could be realized quite quickly by contracting out. (15% of 6 billion is a LOT of money - coincidentally the budget deficit!)
Whether the trends of businesses leaving 416 are real or not, it is clear to anyone who has lived here more than 15-20 years that this city is in decline. Measures must be taken now to curtail or even reverse this.

 

[W. K. Lis]

It is interesting to me that people live outside a city, yet make use the cities facilities (roads, water, transit), but don't pay for it.

If there was an income tax for people who work in the city, that would help to pay for some of the facilities. A portion of the sales tax could then pay for some of the remainder.

Same if I work in the 905. I would pay them a portion of the income tax, and if I buy something in the 905, I would pay them another portion.

Seems fair. As long as the federal and provincial income taxes are reduced in relation to a municipal income tax. Ditto for the sales tax. Just to balance it out.

 

[urbanfan89]

I'd support creating a GTA District consisting of Toronto and all the 905 regions. It could be modelled on...lo and behold...the old Metro Toronto arrangement, where each municipality is free to decide their local affairs and a regional government makes services that the entire region depends on.

 

[Dichotomy]

It's even easier than that to calculate. We already have the immigration numbers and have a fair idea of their special needs. There are simple ways to ascertain the levels of illegal immigrants living in the major cities, since that causes unusual burdens on the local services as well. There is no way in hell the city(ies) should be burdened with those costs.
Ditto for welfare rolls: the numbers can be crunched as to where these people are coming from: out of the city, out of the province, out of the country and the feds/province can apportion their fair share accordingly.
I"m all for expansion of the subway network into Vaughan and Mississauga, but clearly the Province has to step in and pay for a portion of it - and not make it look like a bloody gift! The same for the freeway system: clearly a lot of those people are using the freeways to get into or through the city. A goodly portion of the upkeep/expansion should be paid for by the province and/or feds.

Frankly, I have no bloody idea why taxes should be based on the value of someone's home - especially if they bought it 30 years ago for $50k and now it is worth $400k. Who cares, except perhaps their estate? Anyway, that is another topic, for sure!

 

[urbanfan89]

It'd get worse. High inflation means costs go up - presumably for bikes as well. Get it?

The costs of driving personal automobile will always be greater than other modes of transportation.

And other people have weird views concerning the function of other modes of transportation. Add to that, it still is weird to wish for poor economic times in order to address one's hand-wringing worries. A bad economic situation does not promise good results.

I don't think anyone here is wishing for poor economic times. Perhaps it's your head that's making you think that way.

 

[Glen]

I was commenting on the use of the highway for this particular purpose as a public good - which is to get rid of garbage - not the greater debate about waste disposal - which is beyond the scope of this thread.

Michigan sure is lucky to have a black hole that can get rid of garbage, otherwise us Torontonians would be nimby-ers.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Propane storage facilities should move to 905

Propane storage facilities should move to the 905, especially if we want a 1.6 km safety area around it. Judging by all the empty spaces around industrial areas in the 905, that would be one reason to move businesses to the 905: because of the danger. Must be a lot of dangerous industries in the 905 already, judging by all the empty spaces between them.

However, other safer industries could stay in the 416.