Toronto id8 Downsview | ?m | ?s | Northcrest Developments | KPMB
- Thread starter dowlingm
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Amare
Senior Member
I dont want to get too deep into this before taking this off-topic but lately Transport Canada seems like they have no idea what they've been talking about regarding various issues. First it's this, then it's the Passenger Bill of Rights, then it's the required number of hours pilots are mandated to work. I honestly dont know where they've been getting their facts from lately but whatever the source is, it's flawed.
lenaitch
Senior Member
This could be interesting. Bombardier was reportedly in partnership talks with a Chinese company called Comac. I don't know if the Airbus partnership now precludes that or whether there is still potential for the Chinese to get involved in the Q and CRJ series aircraft. I'm not sure Airbus would be interested beyond the C-series since these other lines seem to overlap their own ETR (ATR?) series. On the other hand, I believe Saab is prototyping an military airborne surveillance application based on both models. It might turn out that the Downsview production lines moving anywhere within Canada would be considered a positive outcome.
dowlingm
Senior Member
given the local rivers etc I think extending Brampton is gonna be about as likely as the OBRY adjacent becoming double track Class 4 with DMUs zipping to and from.
For those using Q400 performance numbers to determine length, remember the business jets might need more depending on the nature of the flight tests. Oshawa might have worked a few years back if the local community who rose up against a previous airport extension had been mollified with a bunch of well paying jobs coming with it.
For those using Q400 performance numbers to determine length, remember the business jets might need more depending on the nature of the flight tests. Oshawa might have worked a few years back if the local community who rose up against a previous airport extension had been mollified with a bunch of well paying jobs coming with it.
aquateam
Active Member
So this is how I could handle the sale of the Downsview airport:
-Replace Allen road with an extension of Dufferin Road, wide enough for bus lanes (or a streetcar ROW, if you want to put that in your fantasy map)
-Downgrade the interchange with Allen road (now with Wilson heights) north of Highway 401.
-Zone the Dufferin extension for retail/office/mixed use along its length
-"Straighten" Sheppard avenue by building an extension to bridge the gap
- Rebuild a proper street grid in the airport/Allen areas
- Put in a "West Toronto Railpath"-type trail along the Barrie GO line.
- Put in a green-space buffer between Wilson Yard and the new development to allow for yard expansion or to act as a noise buffer from the new development
- Since there is no nearby residential development, there is Downsview park, Barrie GO, TYSSE, the Sheppard West extension, etc., the area around Sheppard and Dufferin should allow for as much density as possible to take advantage of the wealth of transit options and greenspace.
-Replace Allen road with an extension of Dufferin Road, wide enough for bus lanes (or a streetcar ROW, if you want to put that in your fantasy map)
-Downgrade the interchange with Allen road (now with Wilson heights) north of Highway 401.
-Zone the Dufferin extension for retail/office/mixed use along its length
-"Straighten" Sheppard avenue by building an extension to bridge the gap
- Rebuild a proper street grid in the airport/Allen areas
- Put in a "West Toronto Railpath"-type trail along the Barrie GO line.
- Put in a green-space buffer between Wilson Yard and the new development to allow for yard expansion or to act as a noise buffer from the new development
- Since there is no nearby residential development, there is Downsview park, Barrie GO, TYSSE, the Sheppard West extension, etc., the area around Sheppard and Dufferin should allow for as much density as possible to take advantage of the wealth of transit options and greenspace.
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Leo_Chan
Senior Member
I saw your image, saw the transit line for the Line 1 Extension, was excited that Google finally added it, went onto Google Maps to confirm, confused that it wasn't there, came back, and realized this map was edited.
I would modify the Dufferin Rd interchange to make it a full one as well.
aquateam
Active Member
I saw your image, saw the transit line for the Line 1 Extension, was excited that Google finally added it, went onto Google Maps to confirm, confused that it wasn't there, came back, and realized this map was edited.
I complained to google maps on the little "Report a data problem" option about that too!
It also annoys me how the little lines aren't the actual underground location of the tunnels, just straight line segments.
dowlingm
Senior Member
OpenStreetMap has the extension if you really want it.
Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Yeah I know, and so does Apple Maps and many more. It’s just disappointing that Google Maps, possibly the top map tool, is missing it.
TOareaFan
Superstar
It may be the most popular map tool but perhaps what you are seeing is it is not necessarily the "top map tool"
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Google maps is also still missing the Simcoe street ramp from the Gardiner. Google's closure of community based updates has really limited it's ability to adapt to changes in infrastructure in any reasonable timeframe. The Spadina extension has been open for 3 months now, and the Simcoe off ramp for about 2, both without updates.
At least directions knows the spadina extension is open, it directs you to use it when travelling to a destination. The Simcoe ramp is still entirely unknown though with maps directing you to Spadina or Jarvis still.
At least directions knows the spadina extension is open, it directs you to use it when travelling to a destination. The Simcoe ramp is still entirely unknown though with maps directing you to Spadina or Jarvis still.
Amare
Senior Member
Bombardier is really desperate to unload the Downsview land, and fast. They're moving quickly on this:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...aid-to-hire-td-for-toronto-aircraft-site-sale
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...aid-to-hire-td-for-toronto-aircraft-site-sale
junctionist
Senior Member
TD Bank sells real estate nowadays?
steveintoronto
Superstar
It's a bit more complex than that even:
https://saab.com/air/airborne-solutions/airborne-surveillance/globaleye/GLOBALEYETHE ALL-NEW AEW&C SOLUTION
Jonas Härmä
Marketing & SalesEMAILPhone+46 13 18 63 21
To truly ensure territorial integrity and security in today’s complex environments, airborne surveillance is crucial. So too is extended range coupled with the ability to detect low-observable air, sea and ground objects. With the new GlobalEye AEW&C solution, you get it all.
GlobalEye AEW&C provides air, maritime and ground surveillance in a single solution. It combines a powerful new extended range radar with the ultra-long range Global 6000 jet aircraft from Bombardier. A solution that maximizes operational performance – both in terms of detection capability and mission endurance – while at the same time offering outstanding crew comfort.
kEiThZ
Superstar
This is has been a major issue in Canada. We don't have international standard runways. No grooved pavements. Shorter Runway End Safety Areas (RESA) and no mandates for arrestor beds at the end (EMAS):
Canada is behind the times. But our airlines aren't interested in paying higher fees for the upgrades. And the government is not interested in reducing the take for the the cash cow that is aviation in this country.
The Q and CRJ are sort of the on the downslope. The Q400 is a great airplane. But it's actually over engineered for the primary application: commuter flights to hubs. So the slower and shorter range ATR is outselling it. The CRJ is basically hampered by scope clauses and stiff competition from the ERJ. And these aren't hugely profitable markets. Which is why Boeing is unlikely to be interested (and Airbus already owns ATR). It's a small market that mostly involves selling the Q and CRJ for cheap to emerging markets who are only starting to expand regular commercial air service beyond second tier cities. The truth is that BBD would be better off making Qs and CRJs in China for the Chinese market. And ditto in India for the Indian market.
The military applications are not really relevant. Small market. And there's an active debate inside the military whether these types of missions should even be manned. It's a giant sensor platform. It's a valid question whether we'd be better off using a large HALE UAV (like a Global Hawk) and doing the AEWC, electronic intel (ELINT), Ground Targeting (GMTI), etc. via backhaul on the ground.
The Americans are already looking at shifting aerial refuelling and carrier on-board delivery (COD) to an unmanned platform:
https://www.flyingmag.com/boeing-reveals-first-look-at-mq-25-unmanned-refueling-aircraft
https://news.usni.org/2017/08/31/mq...most-double-strike-range-u-s-carrier-air-wing
https://www.defenceaviation.com/201...ed-carrier-based-aerial-refueling-system.html
In the past, it's COD platforms that have been used for AWACS. Like the E-2 Hawkeye. So for BBD, worst case scenario is the market is done in a decade. Best case scenario, they sell a dozen Globals to SAAB for conversion to military.
The real market for BBD would be for them to develop a maritime patrol aircraft around the CSeries and then to extend it into a surveillance and control family with an ELINT/GMTI platform (competitive with the American E-8 JSTARS) . Like Boeing has done with the P-8. And Canada is coming up with a requirement to replace our Aurora fleet. The Global family is just too small for most defence applications, except for a niche like what SAAB is doing. Unfortunately, I don't see political will to spend money on developing military variants of the CSeries.
To the point at hand, there's no military market sufficient to keep Downsview open. And the civilian market is drying up slowly, but surely. Bombardier is at a point where they probably should divest Downsview and consolidate in Montreal or move the tooling elsewhere (possibly even overseas). Losing 3500 manufacturing jobs, and a whole host of support jobs behind those really sucks. But at this point, I'm not sure Torontonians care for anything that doesn't involve the real estate transaction chain.
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