Big-spending tourists shun Toronto

[tudararms]

SD2 and Allabootmatt: Agree. Also, these perceptions of blandness are probably just as strong within Canada as they are among Americans who've never been here before. The fact is though, how many people come here and end up wanting to stay here permanently because they like it so much? Many, in my experience! This would hardly imply that Toronto is bland.

As far as T.O. being expensive, I can't really compare hotels because I usually stay with friends or family when in the U.S. but I do notice that food and drink and general consumer goods (clothing etc) do seem to hurt the pocketbook a little more in Toronto. I always end up spending a fortune when south of the border to buy stuff I could get in Toronto anyway, but at an elevated price. Different economies I know, but this is definately a deterent given the rising Canadian dollar on top.

Another thought on Toronto's identity: One thing I think we need to promote more is our own collective history which is part of our collective identity. To me, this is where a lot of government cultural funding should be going. In other words, we should be telling our story. The heros and the scoundrels, the famous and infamous, the fascinating and the puzzling will all rise to the surface and before long we have a sense of where we've been and who we are that defines us collectively. History is never bland, although how we tell it may very well be. This is where our artists and musicians and writers should pick up the challenge. Hey, who really cared about the building of the National railway until Lightfoot sang about it, or Vimy Ridge until Berton picked up his pen?) The fact is the average Torontonian probably couldn't tell you anything about our past and that's unfortunate. In part at least this may be what contributes to a perception of our not having an identity or any interesting local colour.

 

[allabootmatt]

I do think that things are changing, slowly, at least for certain people, as far as perception goes. The Film Festival is a HUGE marketing tool for the city, and is only getting more prominent as its status as world #1 is cemented. The music scene is also getting a lot of notice. I'd also guess that over the next several years, as projects get completed, the amount of coverage in the architectural press will go from a trickle to a flood.

But more generally, I think they city is finally emerging from its awkward phase, vis-a-vis the rest of the world. Nobody pretends anymore that there is any competition between T-O and Montreal as Canada's cultural hub, for example, and I think that an unqualified identification of Toronto as the nation's "international city" is going, and will continue to go, a long way.

But even so, good marketing is a must. One of the nice things about Montreal right now, from a psycho-civic and marketing standpoint, is that the pressure is off; as I mentioned above, it no longer has to worry about being Canada's metropolis, and thus the insecurities/expectations/etc. that come with being told you have to compete in the biggest leagues. As such it can (and has) been able to carve a very lucrative marketing niche out--as the romantic, quasi-European and thus slightly exotic destination that I suppose it is, in a way. Toronto doesn't have that luxury--we feel a certain innate need to be all things to all people in the manner of the great world capitals, and I think that this really confuses the marketing.

One also runs into the problem of "identity"--what tudararms has been pointing out, re: Toronto's old-world feel is essentially about hybridity, which for me is the key trait of the city. It has no theme, no unifying narrative, no single image that could easily be turned into an ad a la mountains for Vancouver or Montreal's lipstick stain tourism logo. This makes Toronto an awfully interesting place due to the unbelievable amount of eclecticism within the city limits, but unfortunately a marketing nightmare. I think the Toronto Unlimited people understood this on some level, although their response to the problem was really, really pathetic.

 

[Chuck100]

Personally I love the Toronto identity, and I love living in the centre of it all. But I doubt that people from Hicksville, Ohio are going to enjoy riding the streetcar out to Little Italy, the Annex, or the India Bazaar, or an independent art gallery just because they are multicultural, historic, or urban. No, what they want are things like Canada's Wonderland, the Vaughan Mills Mall, Ontario Place, CN Tower, or a major league sports game.

If I were in charge, I would do one of two things. Either invest hundreds of millions in stereotypical tourist traps, or focus advertising dollars on the niche market that would enjoy taking a tour of "urban Toronto." I took a relative on a tour and included places such as St. Lawrence Market, U of T, Chinatown, and Queen St. West. Until we finally got to the Eaton Centre, her comments were god, Toronto is the most boring city I've ever been to...

The things that make the old City of Toronto so liveable don't necessarily make it a great place to visit for your average tourist. That's why we either build tourist traps that cater to 95% of visitors, or recognize that Toronto is a gold mine to 5% of tourists and market like crazy specifically to them.

 

[allabootmatt]

I agree that this paradox exists, Chuck100. However, to use the Montreal example again: MTL has significantly fewer big-ticket tourist draws than does Toronto--no big commercial theater scene, few major museums, nothing like the CN Tower, etc etc. Yet it manages to market itself successfully based on atmosphere. Is it possible that this is only the result of the French thing? I doubt it. There's got to be a way...

 

[Antiloop33rpm]

In terms of Montreal attractions don't forget Le Musee des Beaux Arts, Le Musee D'art Contemporaire, Centre Canadian D'architecture, and Cirque De Soleil (when its in town).

Montreal also does one thing that Toronto would really benefit from doing, and that is it highlights its neighborhoods as attractions themselves. Vieux Montreal is always filled with tourists and Le Plateau is becoming more popular with tourists.

Back to Toronto, one aspect of the city that it might consider highlighting more is its collection of Towers in the Park/Commieblocks. It might sound dumb at first, but how many cities in North America have this form urbanity? Truthfully it is the feature that I find most defines Toronto and the one that I find really sets Toronto apart. To a tourist coming up from the United States, it might an interesting half day touring the cities apartment blocks, maybe having lunch in a quaint little restauraunt in a park nestled between a couple of hulking concrete apartment buildings. It might not be a huge draw but Toronto needs to start thinking outside of the box and drawing on its strengths instead of trying to offer only slightly varied versions of what every other city has.

 

[SD2]

I agree that this paradox exists, Chuck100. However, to use the Montreal example again: MTL has significantly fewer big-ticket tourist draws than does Toronto--no big commercial theater scene, few major museums, nothing like the CN Tower, etc etc. Yet it manages to market itself successfully based on atmosphere. Is it possible that this is only the result of the French thing? I doubt it. There's got to be a way...

I think the "French thing" is a major factor. Much of it's brand is built upon stereotypical European French notions of romance and joie de vivre. Not that these don't/can't apply at least in some way to Montreal, but when tourists, especially American, think French, they think Europe, and Montreal has successfully tied itself to the positive Euro-French stereotypes...this despite the fact that Quebecois and the French from Europe are quite different.

This isn't to put down Montreal. It's a fantastic city...but the exotic French angle certainly helps in their marketing.

It's worth noting that Montreal does get significantly less tourists than Toronto.

 

[ganjavih]

Remember, the "boring" perception is the country's image not only Toronto's so let's not be too hard on ourselves. Having said that, there is room for improvement. Tourism in Toronto does revolve around the Eaton Centre and the Yonge and Dundas area. It doesn't help that the neighbourhood has been a construction site for almost the past ten years. Our underwhelming waterfront and the crappy route to get there also doesn't give a good impression. I think things will get better as these issues slowly get resolved. For example, the newly redone boardwalk around Harbourfront Centre area is a great place for a summer stroll.

As Toronto is very much a patchwork of beautiful vibrant neighbourhoods and butt ugly blocks, it would help if there were tourist maps the highlight "must see" neighbourhoods and strips. The maps I've seen didn't seem very helpful and only highlighted attractions such as the CN Tower and the Eaton Centre. It would be helpful if the maps actually highlight what streets are worth exploring and even suggest walking tour routes. Toronto is not the kind of city you can randomly walk around in.

 

[SD2]

Personally I love the Toronto identity, and I love living in the centre of it all. But I doubt that people from Hicksville, Ohio are going to enjoy riding the streetcar out to Little Italy, the Annex, or the India Bazaar, or an independent art gallery just because they are multicultural, historic, or urban. No, what they want are things like Canada's Wonderland, the Vaughan Mills Mall, Ontario Place, CN Tower, or a major league sports game.

If I were in charge, I would do one of two things. Either invest hundreds of millions in stereotypical tourist traps, or focus advertising dollars on the niche market that would enjoy taking a tour of "urban Toronto." I took a relative on a tour and included places such as St. Lawrence Market, U of T, Chinatown, and Queen St. West. Until we finally got to the Eaton Centre, her comments were god, Toronto is the most boring city I've ever been to...

The things that make the old City of Toronto so liveable don't necessarily make it a great place to visit for your average tourist. That's why we either build tourist traps that cater to 95% of visitors, or recognize that Toronto is a gold mine to 5% of tourists and market like crazy specifically to them.

A city should be built by and for the people who live there, first and foremost. An interesting tourist destination will develop naturally.

The bottom line is, you simply can't please everyone. There will always be people who just don't like it here for some reason or another. Most tourists want to find something unique when they travel (or so I'd assume). It would be best to focus on the city's uniqueness, rather than worrying about catering to people like your relative (no offense). Besides, there are more than enough malls, etc. to cater to people who are looking for that kind of thing anyways.

Marketing the stereotypical attractions will only reinforce the stereotypes the city is trying to eliminate.

 

[Antiloop33rpm]

Ganjivah has hit on a good point. One of Toronto's biggest failings is that is does not promote the "real" city very well. The CN Tower, Eaton Center, theatre, Skydome, et al may offer about a days worth of activity to kill time but thats about all. It seems like anytime I see an ad for Toronto its the some old boring cliches being advertised again and again.

Why is this the case? I dont know. It really makes no sense to me. The best parts of Toronto are its neighborhoods, parks, in other words, the everyday lived in parts of the city. If I want cheesey tourist attractions, Ill go to Mississauga, Vaughan or Niagara Falls where parking is plentiful and cheap. If I want to explore an interesting urban area that offers something beyond the usual, boring commercial fare, then Toronto is the obvious choice if Im in the region. I think Toronto would do a lot better in attracting people to the city if it spent more time highlighting all the things that are uniquely Toronto and Canadian and less time trying to be a pseudo theme park destination city.

 

[wyliepoon]

MTL has significantly fewer big-ticket tourist draws than does Toronto

Really? I think Montreal actually has more "tourist traps" than Toronto. The Montreal Tower is Montreal's inferior version to the CN Tower, but it also has a natural observation deck on Mount Royal. It has no world-class museum, but it does have the very well-done Pointe-a-Calliere archaeology museum, plus the Canadian Centre for Architecture. Churches in Montreal are perhaps the biggest attractions... Notre-Dame, St. Joseph's Oratory, Mary Queen of the World Cathedral, etc, etc. Throw in other attractions like the Biosphere and the Casino at the old Expo site, Olympic Stadium and Biodome, and you've got a pretty decent list of attractions in Montreal which stacks up quite nicely to Toronto.

 

[Antiloop33rpm]

A city should be built by and for the people who live there, first and foremost. An interesting tourist destination will develop naturally.

I couldnt agree more.

But there is a perception that somehow a great benefit comes from attracting tourists, and hence, their money. So long as this attitude exists, the ideas of aquariums and other tourist traps will only persist.

 

[cacruden]

MTL has significantly fewer big-ticket tourist draws than does Toronto

I missed this comment.

July

Have you ever heard of the Montreal International Jazz Festival? If you have never attended it -- you should.

August

Festival of Laughs...

Major sports other than hockey die there for a reason.... too much competition :b

 

[Antiloop33rpm]

Is it? The city has changed quite a bit in a relatively short period of time...

I dont know if I would agree with that. There has been change, some areas such as by the Skydome and waterfront have certainly changed, and still are, and there are some spot changes around the city.

But overall, a walk down Yonge or Bloor or Queen West still largely feels the same as it did 20 years ago just with the usual changes that take place over a generation in any city. Other than new towers going up, Toronto today still feels like the Toronto I remember when I would visit in the early 80's.

 

[allabootmatt]

Dunno if I would include Queen W in that...though the built form hasn't changed much, the occupants have done so well beyond normal generational adjustment...

However, I absolutely think things can transform relatively quickly, even in established neighbourhoods. To take my own stomping grounds of Yonge/Bloor/Eastern Yorkville, physically the area will be unrecognisable compared to, say, 1990 by 2010.

 

[TdotTrickyRicky]

Changing perceptions of Toronto being boring aren't going to happen overnight. They also stem sometimes from issues which clash with quality of life. Our archaic alcohol laws and resident weighted bi-law restrictions on nightlife venues don't help tourism, but then you are glad they exist if you have an early work meeting. I think our best strategy is just to do what Toronto does best, be a regional, continental and if possible global centre in all manner of human pursuits. This means supporting and improving our existing strengths (film, literature, paper-rock-scissors etc.). Once and a while it doesn't hurt to put aside the fiscal prudence and embark on a couple of human follies (escalator to nowhere, world's tallest whatever). On the ground we need to improve the aesthetics of the city, it's entertainment value etc. but this is a long slog that frankly takes generations.