Barrie Collingwood Railway (BCRY)

[lenaitch]

Thinking in terms of funding a commuter or 2WAD service to Collingwood, I wonder if there exists a mechanism for the county to partially fund operations? Line 2 of the LINX bus service already hits the major town centers between Allendale and Collingwood (minus Cwood itself, of course). Notwithstanding the increased O&M of trains versus buses, it would be a useful backbone with value to the county by itself, let alone the value to the GO network (further range, increased catchment area, etc).

Operations is one thing; the upfront capital cost is another. Either way, operating a bus or five is a whole lot cheaper that a heavy rail line. You need this economy to pay for the next one and I doubt the County taxpayers would be willing to foot the bill. Many of them would realize no benefit.

This discussion seems to bounce back-and-forth between a tourist train and commuting.

I'd assume 1rrain each way on Saturday and Sunday would be all that would be needed beyond Allendale

I would think that would only catch a portion of the market. Not everybody can or does ski all day, particularly if you have kids, and who's going to sit around waiting for train time. It also ignores night skiers, which is incredibly popular.

 

[micheal_can]

I would think that would only catch a portion of the market. Not everybody can or does ski all day, particularly if you have kids, and who's going to sit around waiting for train time. It also ignores night skiers, which is incredibly popular.

You mean how GO already only catches a portion of the long distance commuter market? I used that as a simple way of saying how much could work. Maybe there are trains every 4 hours to and from Colllingwood.

 

[lenaitch]

You mean how GO already only catches a portion of the long distance commuter market? I used that as a simple way of saying how much could work. Maybe there are trains every 4 hours to and from Colllingwood.

Once again, missing the point completely. GO is daily service, taking people to and from a fairly necessary endeavour - making a living. The fact that it doesn't capture every commuter isn't the point; no public commuter or transit system does. Spending the amount of public money that would be required to build and operate this rail service for people to enjoy what is essentially a hobby is, to me, a mis-use of public funds when the same service could just as effectively be provided by bus. As I indicated, I feel the same for service to Niagara Falls (although as Paul points out, at least the infrastructure is in place). When every other more pressing need for daily regional commuter service is satisfied, then perhaps.

I have not been arguing the route on the basis of a regular rail-based commuter service. I don't believe the case is there, and if it eventually is, the ROW is owned by the County of Simcoe and railbanked.

 

[micheal_can]

Once again, missing the point completely. GO is daily service, taking people to and from a fairly necessary endeavour - making a living. The fact that it doesn't capture every commuter isn't the point; no public commuter or transit system does. Spending the amount of public money that would be required to build and operate this rail service for people to enjoy what is essentially a hobby is, to me, a mis-use of public funds when the same service could just as effectively be provided by bus. As I indicated, I feel the same for service to Niagara Falls (although as Paul points out, at least the infrastructure is in place). When every other more pressing need for daily regional commuter service is satisfied, then perhaps.

I have not been arguing the route on the basis of a regular rail-based commuter service. I don't believe the case is there, and if it eventually is, the ROW is owned by the County of Simcoe and railbanked.

Go was that, but after going to Niagara Falls, it isn't that anymore.

The question would be whether a bus would be enough for the amount that would use it. That is why I asked if there has ever been a study on it. We can argue back and forth for the next week, but without much context, we both have no legs to stand on.

 

[lenaitch]

Go was that, but after going to Niagara Falls, it isn't that anymore.

The question would be whether a bus would be enough for the amount that would use it. That is why I asked if there has ever been a study on it. We can argue back and forth for the next week, but without much context, we both have no legs to stand on.

No clue whether or not it has been studied. Only a publicly-funded agency would have the deep pockets required to restore and operate a rail line, certainly for what amounts to an occasional service. As pointed out by others, at least for NF, the majority of the infrastructure is already there.

I don't know about Blue specifically, but using Mount St. Louis Moonstone and Horseshoe Valley as examples, the number of highway coaches on a typical weekend is significant. Weekdays (outside Christmas and March Break) not so much - mostly school charters. One advantage to the hill operators is that it spreads out the load a bit. People arrive and leave in 40-50 packs rather than several hundred. The weekend and seasonal weighting of the industry is one of the factors that complicates the discussion. Another is that some of the hills in the Collingwood/Blue Mountain are private (you have to be a member-like a private golf club). The fact that there are no longer ski trains to Whistler or Charlevoix should be instructive. At least with those lines, there is freight service, however modest, to provide income, and they still couldn't make it work.

Again, I'm not arguing the case for a commuter service. The Collingwood/TBM area is growing, but whether it is/will become full of enough people to justify a commuter rail service remains. Perhaps when multiple Linx buses between Barrie and Collingwood are full of strap-hangers, then perhaps.

 

[micheal_can]

No clue whether or not it has been studied. Only a publicly-funded agency would have the deep pockets required to restore and operate a rail line, certainly for what amounts to an occasional service. As pointed out by others, at least for NF, the majority of the infrastructure is already there.

I don't know about Blue specifically, but using Mount St. Louis Moonstone and Horseshoe Valley as examples, the number of highway coaches on a typical weekend is significant. Weekdays (outside Christmas and March Break) not so much - mostly school charters. One advantage to the hill operators is that it spreads out the load a bit. People arrive and leave in 40-50 packs rather than several hundred. The weekend and seasonal weighting of the industry is one of the factors that complicates the discussion. Another is that some of the hills in the Collingwood/Blue Mountain are private (you have to be a member-like a private golf club). The fact that there are no longer ski trains to Whistler or Charlevoix should be instructive. At least with those lines, there is freight service, however modest, to provide income, and they still couldn't make it work.

Again, I'm not arguing the case for a commuter service. The Collingwood/TBM area is growing, but whether it is/will become full of enough people to justify a commuter rail service remains. Perhaps when multiple Linx buses between Barrie and Collingwood are full of strap-hangers, then perhaps.

I don't think anyone is suggesting a train to the base of the hill. I know I am not. So, there still would be buses.

 

[Allandale25]

 

[NW87]

 

[lenaitch]

The first one is Tarpin Lumber. I thought I heard they stopping using rail.

Good to see.

 

[OntarioOnTheMove]

The first one is Tarpin Lumber. I thought I heard they stopping using rail.

Good to see.

They didn't stop, but they are relatively infrequent. Their cars predominantly come through CN at West Toronto as I understand it. Unfortunately, as it sometimes goes with shortlines, some of their rail business also comes in 53' containers or is transloaded elsewhere. It's nice to see them use their siding whenever it happens.

View attachment 595386

View attachment 595387

Great shots! Were these recent?

 

[Allandale25]

Via Steve in the group Bruce Rails:

The BCRY has been granted a 5 year extension with Cando winning the RFP that closed earlier this year. Starting January 1 Cando will embark on a 5 year operating and co marketing contract. Interesting to note that their public documents indicate they had 323 cars of traffic in 2023 consisting of 11 different customers, and about 23 total customers over the last 6 years. Fair to assume these are transload and/or car storage as they only have a small handful of direct customer sidings.

The local municipalities vis a vis City of Barrie considered other options, such as sale, partial sale, abandoning most of the line and keeping just Utopia, and others. Glad to see they are going for 5 more years as it is and wishing them the best of luck. The railway has great economic potential to land a big customer given all the vacant greenfield lands along the rights of way.

 

[lenaitch]

Via Steve in the group Bruce Rails:

Good to hear. It's a financial weight but the City recognize that abandonment limits their industrial scope. Hopefully they don't go nuts like Orangeville did. Keeping just Utopia doesn't seem to make much sense; they would be operating a small yard and probably transload facility outside of the city's boundaries.

I know Western Mechanical is an occasional customer. I had heard from someone who is closer to the issue that they had an upcoming new steady customer, somewhere in the vicinity of Lockhart or McKay Rds.

 

[NW87]

This unit appears to be owned by the BCRY, taken 3 weeks ago off Mckay Road. The above drone shots were also 3 weeks ago.