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Bad restaurants

Roy G Biv said:
Toronto is one of the best dining cities in the world...
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2x

Also, Z-Teca, the burrito place on King just under the shadow of the 'Light' box, pales in comparison to the 'Boyz a block up on Adelaide. Not necessarily 'bad,' but having had both in the same day I can confidently say I'll probably never return.
 
just to break the theme here for a moment... I have several favourite places to eat when I visit the city. Most recently a consistent stop for me is Hot House on Front at Church. They change their menu every so often, but right now they have this amazing lamb burger with mint sauce that I'd highly recommend. Decent selection of beers and wine, nice ambience and reasonable prices. Apps average around $10 and many of the entrees are under $20.

I do think that poor restaurants are the exception rather than the rule... although I'd agree with the point about being on vacation, I cant really remember any bad dining experiences during my travels. (outside of airports!)
 
spider said:
I like Chinese food but two characteristics exhibited by the wait staff at too many restaurants, good and bad, drive me nuts.

The first has to do with bottled beer, I like to fill the glass about half way but as soon as super waiter notices that he can fill the glass and ask me if I want another beer he pounces. I have had to arm wrestle my beer away from too many of these idiots, every one of them sees me not as a diner but as a consumer to be hustled as soon as possible for further profit.
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This is not a Chinese restaurant thing, but it happens everywhere, especially with wine. It's a known "trick" in the restaurant industry where they'll top up frequently so you'll drink faster and order more wine. Restaurants have been doing this forever.

spider said:
My second problem has to do with buffets when slow or casual eaters are constantly harassed by hyper staff members clutching at your almost, but not completely empty plate.

Do these offenders not understand that most diners do not want to bolt down their meal and run even if it is not convenient to the management.
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This is the reality of buffet restaurants. A Chinese buffet restaurant is usually operating on low margins so high turnover is needed. More expensive buffet restaurants such as Old Mill Restaurant or Sunday brunch as Avenue have higher margins and thus not as concerned with turnover... although sometimes they set time limits such as you gotta be out of there in 2 hours or something.
 
Roy G Biv said:
Toronto is one of the best dining cities in the world...
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In terms of fine dining, Toronto is far from the best compared to other big cities like NYC, SF, LA, Paris, HK, Tokyo, etc. and T.O has taken a big hit in this recession when you have top restaurants like Susur, Truffles and Perigee being closed down, and Splendido, JKWB, Celestin and Il Mulino - to name a fiew -being bought out. All these names represented a significant part of the core of Toronto's fine dining scene over at least the past decade - all gone or changed hands.
 
Tacoma said:
In terms of fine dining, Toronto is far from the best compared to other big cities like NYC, SF, LA, Paris, HK, Tokyo, etc. and T.O has taken a big hit in this recession when you have top restaurants like Susur, Truffles and Perigee being closed down, and Splendido, JKWB, Celestin and Il Mulino - to name a fiew -being bought out. All these names represented a significant part of the core of Toronto's fine dining scene over at least the past decade - all gone or changed hands.
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Truffles hasn't been a top restaurant for a long time - that's why it closed down.

Susur Lee still has restaurants here, but wanted to open one up in NYC.

The simple fact is, the restaurant industry is very much a cyclical industry, where even high end restaurants close. This is especially true in this economic climate. I'm willing to bet all of these cities have seen their share of closures; that isn't something that's about to change.

As far as I know, Toronto is quite well regarded as a culinary city.
 
Tacoma said:
In terms of fine dining, Toronto is far from the best compared to other big cities like NYC, SF, LA, Paris, HK, Tokyo, etc. and T.O has taken a big hit in this recession when you have top restaurants like Susur, Truffles and Perigee being closed down, and Splendido, JKWB, Celestin and Il Mulino - to name a fiew -being bought out. All these names represented a significant part of the core of Toronto's fine dining scene over at least the past decade - all gone or changed hands.
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Ridiculous. NYC, Paris ok fine. Never been to Tokyo or Hong Kong so I cannot really comment. But Toronto blows L.A. out of the water and just nips San Fran in my opinion. My favourite part of San Fran's cuisine was their excellent wine lists (I'm a big fan of Californian Cabernet Sauvignon). They have great Chinese, obviously, but so do we. Their thai places beat ours in my opinion and I'll say sushi is hit or miss in both towns. As far as European cuisine goes Toronto beats out SF handily, though they do have some excellent looking locations that we just can't rival because we just aren't that much of an art-deco, flatiron building city the way they are.
L.A. is the exact opposite of what should be considered a fine dining destination. Hipsters, b-c-d list celebs driving up prices, parking lots bigger than the actual restaurants they serve and a clientele will go anywhere or eat anything that they heard about in US weekly. Most L.A. restaurants don't last longer than the the flash in the pan clientele that they cater to.

Grace, Colborne Lane, Nota Bene, Marben, Splendido, Boiler House, Hy's, Lucien, North 44, Noce, Pizzeria Libretto all add up to one hell of a culinary city that beats out any city in California any day of the week.
 
milanista, your "ridiculous" comment notwithstanding, I respectfully disagree with you on LA and SF. The former isn't considered one of the top culinary spots by most accounts but it still beats Toronto by most measures. Take the Michelin Guide as one measure since it's referenced so frequently around the world. According to the latest guide, LA has 20 restaurants with at least one star (I'm going by memory here so may be off a bit) including top restaurants such as Melisse in Santa Monica, Spago in Beverley Hills, and Providence in Hollywood. SF has much more, including Thomas Keller's French Laundry which is considered by many around the world as one of the top restaurants. In fact, I just went to Coi by Daniel Patterson in North Beach, considered one of the better restaurants in SF specializing in molecular gastronomy. Toronto has absolutely nothing like it. And you talk about being a big on California Cab, then you should know that the Napa & Sonoma areas also have some of the best restaurants in the world as well.

How many Michelin Star restaurants are in Toronto? None, as far as I know. And while Marben, Lucien, Hy's and others mentioned by you are good restaurants, they are a dime a dozen in the California fine dining scene.

Now, you don't have to go Michelin and it's all a matter of opinion and personal taste, but if you were to debate this in with other serious foodies in Chowhound or eGullet, you'll find very few, if not none, who would come close to agreeing that "Toronto blows LA."

Once again, I'm not saying Toronto is bad, but it's not one of the best culinary cities in the world; not even close, and surely not blowing away LA.
 
Surely we should be judging cities by where real people eat ... not these fake 1-star restaurants that cater to plastic people. The foodies have normally got the le cornichon stuck so far up their arse, that it's coming out their mouths trying to impress ...
 
Tacoma said:
How many Michelin Star restaurants are in Toronto? None, as far as I know. And while Marben, Lucien, Hy's and others mentioned by you are good restaurants, they are a dime a dozen in the California fine dining scene.

Now, you don't have to go Michelin and it's all a matter of opinion and personal taste, but if you were to debate this in with other serious foodies in Chowhound or eGullet, you'll find very few, if not none, who would come close to agreeing that "Toronto blows LA."

Once again, I'm not saying Toronto is bad, but it's not one of the best culinary cities in the world; not even close, and surely not blowing away LA.
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I dunno about fine dining in LA or San Fran, but the Michelin guide doesn't even publish in Toronto...
 
Epi said:
I dunno about fine dining in LA or San Fran, but the Michelin guide doesn't even publish in Toronto...
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There were too many great restaurants to fit into one book, so they cancelled the whole thing.
 
I would have to agree that San Francisco and central California in general was great. I'd say it was the most memorable and best quality dining experience of my life. Never had a subpar meal in 2 weeks there and was consistently impressed.
 
I think when people say "Toronto is a great dining city", they mean:
- there is unbelievable culinary diversity
- the restaurant scene is good in relation to Toronto not being an "it" city in the world
 
Does seals from NOW magazine, 24 Hours, CityTV (I think I've see one show showing recommended restaurants) and Toronto Life really make them the quality restaurants in T.O.? Or are they biased like this guy milanista with his comments?
 
hbl33 said:
Does seals from NOW magazine, 24 Hours, CityTV (I think I've see one show showing recommended restaurants) and Toronto Life really make them the quality restaurants in T.O.? Or are they biased like this guy milanista with his comments?
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I don't really understand what you're getting at. Nowhere in my posts did I mention any of those media outlets. The fact that I've been to the restaurants I mentioned and enjoyed myself very much (taking price, quality and atmosphere into account) is what makes them quality restaurants in my opinion. If any of them were mentioned in Now or on CityTV or wherever then all the better for them. I do read Toronto Life and occasionally do visit restaurants based on the write ups they receive but that is by no means the be all and end all. I've been to restaurants, enjoyed myself, only to later find out that they received bad write ups from Toronto's various media outlets including Toronto Life. Restaurants are all hit or miss. It's just the nature of the beast.

Unlike others here, possibly Tacoma, I don't confine myself to restaurants that are recommended by well known restaurant guides and critics. If we all judged cities and restaurants based on Michelin alone nobody would ever dine outside of the few cities and countries that they feel are priveleged enough to be acknowledged by them.

I agree with an earlier post, which referred to an excellent culinary destination despite it not being an "it spot" of a city. I couldn't agree more.
 
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