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Baby, we got a bubble!?

http://www.thestar.com/business/art...on-five-star-condos-proving-a-tough-sell?bn=1

We all have read about investors in Trump Plaza trying to get out of their commitments. Now, it is an open secret that investors in Ritz are having difficulties getting rid of their units.

Could Shangri-la be next?

For interested sakes I hope not. I have better expectations for Shangri-La. I was speaking to my father about this. He installs gas fireplaces for most Condos, and he told me that the workmanship in Ritz was one of the worst he has ever seen. He also told me that so many things were missed, and that they barely passed inspections with certain things. He also said the Shangri-La is much better organized, as well he said that workmanship is top notch. He also told me that Four Seasons is the best project he has worked in based on materials, workmanship, and organization. Makes you wonder what goes on behind the scenes.
 
Nothing to worry about if house prices rise indefinitely.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...punch-drunk-on-household-debt/article2315580/


Boomers 'Punch Drunk' on household debt

tavia grant
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 9:00AM EST


People over the age of 45 and already-heavy borrowers are driving virtually all of the increase in Canada's household debt load, a new study has found.

The report, to be released Thursday, crunched numbers at the micro-level to shed light on what's going on behind the national averages, which soared to record highs last year.

It finds that the most heavily-indebted are responsible for all of the rise in debt since 2007, and that those who should be saving for retirement and building assets are moving fastest into a financial hole.

“While a crisis does not appear imminent, there are cracks emerging in the financial foundation of Canadians that are likely to impair spending growth ahead,†says the report, titled “Punch Drunkâ€, by CIBC economists Avery Shenfeld and Benjamin Tal.

Ballooning household debt has made headlines in recent months, and Bank of Canada Governor Mark Carney has warned it is the No. 1 domestic risk to Canada's economy.

Low interest rates have driven recent debt growth. But that's not all – household income growth was weak last year, just as inflation heated up. As a result, real disposable income fell 0.1 per cent in the first three quarters of 2011, the bank said – another reasons why people got squeezed.

High household indebtedness doesn't necessarily mean Canada is facing a U.S.-style crash -- as CIBC points out, Denmark's levels are “light years†ahead of Canada, and so are those of the Netherlands and Switzerland.

But they do bear watching closely, because they suggest more Canadians are financially vulnerable to sudden changes such a job loss, drop in housing prices or increase in interest rates.

Other economists, too, have flagged that it is older Canadians who are piling on debt. In October, a TD report found the 65-plus age group are racking up debt at three times the average pace.

The findings have implications for retirement trends, and consumer spending. “Canadians nearing retirement who should be in their prime savings years are, instead, getting themselves deeper into debt,†the CIBC report said.

“We are already seeing an uptrend in bankruptcies for those 50 and over, but the more material impact will be that this group’s ability to spend could be severely squeezed upon retirement.â€

As for heavily indebted borrowers, the study finds virtually all of the rise in debt in the past four years comes from people with a high-debt-gross income ratio. “The indebted have piled on still more debt,†it said.

As a result, the share of heavy borrowers has soared -- to 34 per cent of all indebted households today, compared with 26 per cent in 2007.

Among provinces, British Columbia and Alberta have the highest share of heavy borrowers.

The bank doesn't anticipate any sharp run-up in household bankruptcies. But it does suggest consumers won't contribute much to economic growth this year, just as governments are cutting back. Businesses, therefore, will have to do the heavy lifting in propelling growth.


i guess then they can do the reverse mortgage like the article i posted earlier ... if they have any equity in the property !

it's quite revealing that the age bracket that would usually be in the lowest debt and prime saving period are in reverse ...
the 65-plus age group are racking up debt at three times the average pace.
 
No matter what anyone says now is still the best tie to buy property in Toronto. As a investment you get the best return, I work with many over seas investors that enjoy the rewards.

All this talk about a bubble has been going around forever.
 
No matter what anyone says now is still the best tie to buy property in Toronto. As a investment you get the best return, I work with many over seas investors that enjoy the rewards.

All this talk about a bubble has been going around forever.
The best time to buy in Toronto in relatively recent years would have been in the 1990s.

Also, the talk of the Canadian bubble IMHO didn't really start until the mid 2000s.
 
No matter what anyone says now is still the best tie to buy property in Toronto. As a investment you get the best return, I work with many over seas investors that enjoy the rewards.

Has there ever been a time in your career when you've said to a client, now is a bad time to buy, save your money?
 
For interested sakes I hope not. I have better expectations for Shangri-La. I was speaking to my father about this. He installs gas fireplaces for most Condos, and he told me that the workmanship in Ritz was one of the worst he has ever seen. He also told me that so many things were missed, and that they barely passed inspections with certain things. He also said the Shangri-La is much better organized, as well he said that workmanship is top notch. He also told me that Four Seasons is the best project he has worked in based on materials, workmanship, and organization. Makes you wonder what goes on behind the scenes.

Thank you for your concern for me. Fortunately I really did not buy to flip. However, Trump I think is a different animal. It has investors who bought to rent out hotel suites. Then it has condo units as well; however about 2/3 of the whole place by number of units if I recall correctly are hotel units. Those units are both expensive, will have a higher tax rate, are a different investment entirely than the Ritz, SL or 4S in which case the hotels are not sold as individual condo hotel units. No one in SL can rent under a year. I am guessing it is similar at Ritz and 4S. Perhaps someone can advise. In Trump, you can give your hotel unit to rent out nightly. Would you want to live next door to a suite that turns over every day or every other day? You can appreciate the non hotel units at Trump are a different animal but if Trump non hotel units get painted with the same brush as the hotel units then it will be problems for Trump as a whole. Possibly, it may translate to problems at SL and 4S as well.
I must admit the pictures of the Ritz herringbone floors look great but the rest (bathrooms and most kitchens) look quite similar to many mid high range projects and not the luxury units of other places. Anyhow, I have expressed that I think the Ritz has other problems: location, no opening windows, no balconies, double elevator rides... things that are important to at least some buyers when they are looking at a home as opposed to an investment.
Units at the Ritz are also large for 1 bedroom units (at 1500 sq.ft. range).
Accordingly, a 1 bedroom is well over $1 million dollars.

For me and the SL, it was bought for personal use. It was also bought at 2007 price. So I can withstand it dropping and even going down from what I paid for it. Unless something changes, I would not be selling in a down market. That said; if SL and Ritz and Trump end up at $800-900/sq.ft., the real question I believe will be how do you sell PRECON elsewhere which is mid range at $600-700 and mid to luxury at $700-850/sq.ft. Surely that market too will come down quite markedly and as well, there is much more product in this price range and I am guessing perhaps some less well capitalized buyers than at the higher end (4S, SL and probably Ritz and Trump non hotel units). Maybe luxury did get too far ahead of itself. However, everything else will come down too.

One final point. Before buying at SL, I reviewed and researched Westbank. Also heard very positive things about Ian Gillespie and his company; about SL Vancouver and the Fairmont. Others here told me that this developer knows what he is doing. Finally, because he was established, well financed, and has other properties that he wishes to develop here, he had a good reason to ensure that "he does it right". After all, you only get 1 chance at a first impression. I appreciate hearing your dad's comments about the workmanship. I hope he is right that it is first rate at SL.
 
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No matter what anyone says now is still the best tie to buy property in Toronto. As a investment you get the best return, I work with many over seas investors that enjoy the rewards.

All this talk about a bubble has been going around forever.

Cityplaceguy, please provide some value with facts, reasoning, research instead of key words we are trained to tell people in the industry. Please elaborate why you think so. Are your investors cash buyers? Would you think the same if the buyer is an end user?
 
Cityplaceguy, please provide some value with facts, reasoning, research instead of key words we are trained to tell people in the industry. Please elaborate why you think so. Are your investors cash buyers? Would you think the same if the buyer is an end user?

Yes as you know Andrew, Toronto home prices have seen steady gains even with a weakening global ecomony. My investors are mostly cash buyers from over seas (China), and if the buyer is a end user I still believe it is a great investment, it beat renting dosnt it? The intrest rates are as low as they can be and will be staying low for years to come.

You are right about the 90s Eug, if I only knew I would own a quarter of Toronto by now!
 
Yes as you know Andrew, Toronto home prices have seen steady gains even with a weakening global ecomony.

And history has proven, repeatedly, all over the globe that when prices have been increasing for many years it will continue indefinitely.
 

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