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Baby, we got a bubble!?

Flaherty sees no housing bubble, says no need to cool
http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCATRE7943T320111005

Canada not set for U.S. housing crash, Royal LePage says
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/10/05/canada-not-set-for-us-housing-crash-royal-lepage-says

Fannie Fong feels fools flipping forward fall:

Fannie Fong of TD Economics said a peak-to-trough drop of roughly 10 per cent for both home sales and prices is expected, though that change isn't expected until the Bank of Canada begins hiking interest rates in earnest in early 2013.
 
I just hope it's not too early in 2013. I renew my mortgage spring 2013. :)

Seriously though, 10% peak to trough isn't much at all. 10% off current pricing is summer 2010 pricing.
 
Karma Condos on 21 Grenville was advertised in Saturday's The Star.

I would appreciate if someome could post asking sq.ft price for this project. Floor plans are already on website of one of the agents.

Thanks to anyone and everyone.
 
Karma Condos on 21 Grenville was advertised in Saturday's The Star.

I would appreciate if someome could post asking sq.ft price for this project. Floor plans are already on website of one of the agents.

Thanks to anyone and everyone.


Price for Karma Condos;

Studio 277sf from $189,900 and 352sf from $240,900

1Bedroom 490 sf from $310,900

1Bedroom 509sf from $330,900

1+Den 540sf from $355,900

2Bedroom 729sf from $450,900

http://www.newreleasecondo.com/KARMA
 
Price for Karma Condos;

Studio 277sf from $189,900 and 352sf from $240,900

1Bedroom 490 sf from $310,900

1Bedroom 509sf from $330,900

1+Den 540sf from $355,900

2Bedroom 729sf from $450,900

http://www.newreleasecondo.com/KARMA

Wow. $618 a square foot for the 2 bed all the way up to $684 a square foot for the 277sf studio. I thought precon pricing was supposed to be cheaper than resale? Or is it the other way around?
 
Price for Karma Condos;

Studio 277sf from $189,900 and 352sf from $240,900

1Bedroom 490 sf from $310,900

1Bedroom 509sf from $330,900

1+Den 540sf from $355,900

2Bedroom 729sf from $450,900

http://www.newreleasecondo.com/KARMA

Thanks for your post.

Prices seem to be lower than some other projects sold earlier in the Entertainment District. Is R/E market slowing down?
 
Wow. $618 a square foot for the 2 bed all the way up to $684 a square foot for the 277sf studio. I thought precon pricing was supposed to be cheaper than resale? Or is it the other way around?

"While we hate talking in generalities about prices per sq. ft. for the overall market, our feeling is that prices are about to level off. In the condo market, there are really two markets. The pre-construction or new condo market is fuelled by investors who then rent or resell their units into the resale market for end-users which gets reported as TREB sales. Investors are only concerned with prices and our new projects are now approaching the $600-700 per sq. ft. range. Only ten years ago we were talking $300. On the other hand, New York prices have been at the $1,000+ range for several years and are not moving much. We all like to compare ourselves to New York but we are not New York in terms of either money or appeal. Resale prices are always lower – today about $500-600 per sq.ft. Investors only buy if they believe they can sell for more later and the price difference with New York is now quite small. And if pre-construction does not move higher, then neither will resale."

http://www.remaxcondosplus.com/blog/septemberoctober-market-report-2011/
 
I am shocked at these prices and the size of the units. I can't imagine why anyone would would pay over $300,000 for 500 square feet. Units are getting smaller and smaller. 277 square feet is ridiculous. Are there not by-laws that state the minimum square footage studio units must be? I think todays condos are becomining nothing more than glorified rooming houses. In the long run, these developments are not benefiting Toronto - they are only benefiting investors and developers.
 
I am shocked at these prices and the size of the units. I can't imagine why anyone would would pay over $300,000 for 500 square feet. Units are getting smaller and smaller. 277 square feet is ridiculous. Are there not by-laws that state the minimum square footage studio units must be? I think todays condos are becomining nothing more than glorified rooming houses. In the long run, these developments are not benefiting Toronto - they are only benefiting investors and developers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ng-under-pressure-as-poverty-levels-rise.html

Click on the link, read the story and see if you still need to complain about the small size condos in downtown Toronto.
 
Resale prices are always lower
This is something I just don't understand. How true is that for actual buildings once you move in? I'm not talking about pre-con now vs. existing resale. I'm talking about pre-con vs. the same building 3 years from now.

In the past pre-con was usually cheaper than resale. In fact, I used to say that a reasonable price premium for a finished unit might be 15% higher than the pre-construction purchase price from a couple years earlier (including inflation, in a period when prices were going up a few percent per year).

That actually made sense, because it's usually a heluvalot more pleasant to move into a complete nearly new unit with all the amenities finished, than it is to wait and hope you'll be able to move in 2 years later... only to pay rent for a few months before you actually take possession.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ng-under-pressure-as-poverty-levels-rise.html

Click on the link, read the story and see if you still need to complain about the small size condos in downtown Toronto.
I used to date a Japanese girl way back when. Her friends told me her family owned a detached home in Japan in a nice area. I didn't really think much of that at the time, but a few years later I finally figured out what that meant. :p
 
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Here's an article from Saturday's National Post:

Investors keep running to the arms of housing

Brent Lewin/Bloomberg
Leveraged investments in condos have paid off for real estate investors willing to wager on a rising market.
Garry Marr Oct 15, 2011 – 9:00 AM ET | Last Updated: Oct 14, 2011 1:23 PM ET
It’s going to crash, it’s going to crash. How many times have we heard this about the Canadian housing market? Sometimes commentators use more tempered language to describe a predicted “pullback” or a market that is going to “moderate.” The problem is that outside of the 2008 recession, when prices corrected 10% followed by a boomerang recovery, it has not been true.
How do you are argue with almost 13 years of uninterrupted growth when the average sale price of a home in Canada has climbed from $152,365 in 1998 to $366,105 year to date in 2011.
That’s a 140% increase, but who’s counting? Apparently, a few investors.
Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. says September new home construction on an annualized basis was above 200,000, a level consistently hit on a yearly basis from 2002-2008. But this time out, a majority of the new construction was condominium apartments.
Existing homes sales, though not as buoyant, have stayed above 2010 levels and even added another 8.2% price appreciation. Why would consumers turn away from housing, when all it does is go up? Not to mention the low interest loans that are there for the asking.
At one point, there was some tough talk about tightening lending but the only substantial change has been shorter amortization periods. You can still get into the market with as a little as 5% down and borrow at rates below 3% because the government of Canada is backing your debt.
And still people like Benjamin Tal, deputy chief economist at CIBC World Markets, thinks real estate’s prominence will fade over the next decade.
“This real estate boom is over. It’s not crazy to invest now, but it’s not the best way to utilize cash,” says Mr. Tal, adding the condo market has been influenced by foreign investors wanting to get their money out of their country of origin and diversify their wealth.
Don’t tell that to investors eyeing the profits in real estate while the markets continue their roller-coaster ride.
What this boom has done for real estate is level the playing field with stocks. The S&P/TSX composite index total return over the past 13 years is about 135%, just below real estate’s 140% gain. Go back to 1980, when CREA first started tracking average price, and real estate’s 446% return based on average sales price also compares with the market. To show stocks outpacing real estate, you need to go back further.
Current investors know nothing but a rising market and they are banking on it because the cost of carrying a condominium investment has risen dramatically.
Urbanation Inc. executive vice-president Ben Myers says the average condominium in Toronto — the biggest market of its kind in North America — sold for about $490 per square foot in the second quarter. Based on about 750 square feet, that’s $367,500.
Your carrying costs would include a mortgage and with 25% down and about a 2.4% interest rate, your monthly mortgage payments would be $1,222.67. The average condo fee is 47¢ per square foot, so add another $350 per month, plus say another $300 per month for taxes.
The problem is those approximate $1,900 in costs, which don’t include heat and hydro, are more than rental revenue. The average Toronto condominium rents for $2.18 per square foot, putting your condo income at just over $1,600 per month.
That gaps seems worth the risk because condominiums in Toronto have appreciated at an average rate of 7% to 8% over the last 15 years. Condominiums also have the added attraction of requiring minimum cash up front until they are registered. It can take three years to build a condominium, so you can get away with putting as little as 20% down before you have to come up with the full amount.
The math is pretty simple. You put $73,500 down on that condo and hope the value of the $367,500 condo jumps to $450,000 in three years, based on a 7% increase, That’s an $82,500 return and, even if you take out $20,000 for transaction costs, you are left with $62,500 profit or an 85% return on your money in three years.
That’s one of the reasons certified financial planner Ted Rechtshaffen sees a number of clients heavily invested in the condominium market. He has one client with a net worth of about $2-million who owns seven condominiums, each with about $100,000 invested in them.
“It is a strategy that has worked,” says Mr. Rechtshaffen, noting the model could come tumbling down if interest rates rise. “If you strip it all down, it’s a highly leveraged strategy. If you are of the view that real estate only goes up, highly leveraged is a smart thing.”
But can real estate go up forever? It’s hardly a sure bet, even though it has seemed like one for so long.
 
Your carrying costs would include a mortgage and with 25% down and about a 2.4% interest rate, your monthly mortgage payments would be $1,222.67. The average condo fee is 47¢ per square foot, so add another $350 per month, plus say another $300 per month for taxes.

2.4% mortgage rates and 8% annual appreciation cannot endure for long. We must be nearing the end of the road.
 

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