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Baby, we got a bubble!?

The sales figures we have seen this year so far are measured against last years numbers which were astronomical when looking at the 10 year average...

Look at the long term average and things are about where they should be.

Has anyone done comparison between 2013 and 2011, or 2010?

I'm curious. If you haven't done the analysis of the 3rd sentence, then how can you reach the conclusion of the 2nd sentence?

2012 April sales were not "astronomical" compared to the long term average. Rather, they were 10% above the long term average for Aprils.

If you want to do this analysis, the data is available in the TREB.ca March Watch archives. Or you can do a quick eyeball of the data at guava.ca (which uses the TREB data)

ps. April 2013 sales compare favourably with the long term average for April, however the sales of last 9 months are 15% below the long term average.
 
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The sales figures we have seen this year so far are measured against last years numbers which were astronomical when looking at the 10 year average. This was due to many echo boomers and luxury buyers rushing to buy before the new mortgage rules came into effect. The lull in sales is to be expected when so many people bought to avoid the new rules. Look at the long term average and things are about where they should be.

Has anyone done comparison between 2013 and 2011, or 2010?

either you're the same poster as the person in the star, or you're plagerizing someone else's comment:

http://www.thestar.com/business/rea...dian_home_sales_fall_3_per_cent_in_april.html
sefton921
6 Hours Ago

You have to remember that these sales figures are measured against last years numbers which were astronomical when looking at the 10 year average. This was due to many echo boomers and luxury buyers rushing to buy before the new mortgage rules came into effect. The lull in sales is to be expected when so many people bought to avoid the new rules. Look at the long term average and things are about where they should be.
 
either you're the same poster as the person in the star, or you're plagerizing someone else's comment:

http://www.thestar.com/business/rea...dian_home_sales_fall_3_per_cent_in_april.html
sefton921
6 Hours Ago

You have to remember that these sales figures are measured against last years numbers which were astronomical when looking at the 10 year average. This was due to many echo boomers and luxury buyers rushing to buy before the new mortgage rules came into effect. The lull in sales is to be expected when so many people bought to avoid the new rules. Look at the long term average and things are about where they should be.

In light of his last sentance where Azeruray asked if anyone could confirm, it looks like he probably just didn't include the parantheses and a note about where it came from.
 
I copied and pasted with minor edits...hence my question following the quote. :)

either you're the same poster as the person in the star, or you're plagerizing someone else's comment:

http://www.thestar.com/business/rea...dian_home_sales_fall_3_per_cent_in_april.html
sefton921
6 Hours Ago

You have to remember that these sales figures are measured against last years numbers which were astronomical when looking at the 10 year average. This was due to many echo boomers and luxury buyers rushing to buy before the new mortgage rules came into effect. The lull in sales is to be expected when so many people bought to avoid the new rules. Look at the long term average and things are about where they should be.
 
Since most of discussions were about Toronto, thought I'd share some interesting finds regarding our fellow counterpart - Vancouver.

Vancouver Sun: Vancouver’s real estate market mirrors Chinese economy, according to study

Vancouver’s housing market fortunes closely mirror trends in the Chinese economy, according to an analysis by an economist with the Conference Board of Canada.

Robin Wiebe says his number crunching has found that there are strong links between home sales, price growth and housing starts in Vancouver and the overall health of the economy in China.

Wiebe made the same comparison with the Toronto housing market and found that Chinese gross domestic product figures were linked to growth in that city’s housing sales, but not to price or starts. GDP is the market value of all goods and services produced in a country.

All aspects of the Vancouver housing market and economic growth in China move together and are statistically significant, Wiebe said.

“It’s another piece in a puzzle,” he said by phone from Ottawa on Monday. “It’s evidence that the Chinese economy moves with various Vancouver real estate variables. It’s another piece of evidence that supports the link between Vancouver and China.”

In the Hot Topics in Economics blog on the Conference Board of Canada website, Wiebe wrote that the effect of China’s economic growth on the Vancouver real estate market rivals the effects of three domestic factors: Vancouver’s population growth, changes in employment, and mortgage interest rates.

“The chief implication is that observers need to pay attention to China’s economic health when assessing the outlook for Vancouver’s housing market,” said Wiebe, a senior economist at the Conference Board’s centre for municipal studies.

Determining the extent of foreign ownership of real estate is impossible in Canada. No level of government keeps track of the country of origin of purchasers who often use local buyers as proxies. Wiebe said that in the 1990s, Vancouver’s housing market was relatively sluggish, despite what he called a decent economy and favourable demographics. Annual employment increases averaged 2.3 per cent while population grew at 2.5 per cent. During that same time, average resale prices rose less than three per cent per year, and ended the decade up 24 per cent.

“The market performed much better during the following 10 years,” he said. “Annual sales of existing homes exceeded 36,000 units, a previously unheard-of volume, for five straight years between 2003 and 2007. The average transaction price doubled between 2000 and 2009, with a 20-per-cent spurt in 2006 alone.”

A big contributing factor, he said, was a substantial drop in mortgage interest costs, which helped people buy homes. A five-year-term mortgage, for example, dropped from 13.2 per cent in 1990 to below seven per cent in 1998, before increasing in 1999. By 2009, the five-year rate fell to an average of 5.1 per cent.

Wiebe wrote that China’s economy grew by only 3.8 per cent in 1990, following a 4.1-per-cent increase in 1989. That compares to the previous five years where GDP growth averaged roughly 7.8 per cent.

The 1990s “ended on a weak note with an annual GDP growth of 7.8 per cent in 1998 and 7.6 per cent in 1999. The 2000s were significantly better — annual Chinese GDP growth never dipped below eight per cent.

“Now the pendulum has swung again,” he wrote. “Despite slightly faster growth in employment (2.1 per cent on average in 2010-12) and population (1.6 per cent), along with even lower mortgage interest rates, Vancouver resale volumes fell 23 per cent in 2012 and average resale price dropped 6.4 per cent. One clue to this tepid performance is that China’s real GDP growth fell to a 12-year-low, estimated at only 7.8 per cent, in 2012.

“Statistical analysis confirms the importance of China’s economic health to Vancouver’s housing markets,” he wrote in the blog.

He said his analysis shows that local employment growth is not significantly related to existing home sales, price growth or housing starts.

“This could mean that a substantial proportion of Vancouver real estate purchases do not need local jobs to buy any home (new or existing) and that many do not need a mortgage to buy a new home,” he said. “On the other hand, better economic health in China gives its residents wealth to spend on Vancouver housing.”

Tsur Somerville, a professor at the University of B.C. and director of the Center for Urban Economics and Real Estate at the Sauder School of Business, said a correlation between the Vancouver real estate market and GDP growth in China is not causation.

“It implies that our housing market is driven by what is going on in China,” he said on Monday. “I think there is an element to the fact that changes in world commodity prices are affected by industrial output in China. That certainly affects all of us.”

Somerville said there is no doubt that the Chinese economy and the rest of the world are linked. But he believes bigger factors at play may be the internal market and total immigration from Asia, not just China.

“The house price growth has been stunning in Vancouver since the year 2000,” Somerville said. “I would argue that a decline in interest rates has had a much bigger effect than the growth in Chinese GDP.”

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/busines...ording+study/8081627/story.html#ixzz2TT8W1HkA
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/busines...ording+study/8081627/story.html#ixzz2TT8LHqWH
 
Anyone who thinks there is currently a shortage in DT condos available for either rent or sale should spend 5 minutes looking at the MLS.ca listings. In C1 alone I'm seeing 500 condos for rent under $1800, and 600 condos for sale under $350k.


That is only one month supply for rentals entering the peak rental season. There is a shortage of quality rentals especially in the core.

The sales inventory you mention above is 3 months worth of supply. Which is pretty balanced compared to the past few years where inventory was much less.
 
We should just blame real estate agents for not working hard enough to sell homes and condos... at today's prices...


Toronto home sales sink 9.7% in early May, condos tumble 13%
MICHAEL BABAD
The Globe and Mail

Sales in the Greater Toronto Area fell to 4,476, while prices held up. The condo market, which has been a focus of concern, were particularly hard hit.

The drop in sales was greater in the city proper than in the surrounding area, at 11.4 per cent and 8.6, respectively, the Toronto Real Estate Board said today.

Sales of detached homes fell 7.5 per cent, while condo sales tumbled 13 per cent.

It’s a reading of just two weeks, but one that’s disappointing given that sales fell by just 2 per cent in April, ending a string of sharp declines and pointing to a better spring market.

In the first two weeks of April, sales dipped by less than 1 per cent from a year earlier, though there was an extra selling because Good Friday fell earlier.

Still, the average selling price rose 5.4 per cent to $543,838 from a year earlier.

“Despite fewer sales this year compared to last, competition between buyers in most segments of the market remained strong enough to promote annual rates of price growth above the rate of inflation,†said Ann Hannah, the group’s president.

“A household earning the average income in the GTA can comfortably afford the mortgage payments associated with the purchase of an average priced home.â€

Average prices for detached homes climbed 5.6 per cent to $682,451, while condo prices gained 1.1 per cent.

As The Globe and Mail’s Tara Perkins reports, Canada-wide numbers released yesterday point to a soft landing in the country’s real estate sector, with sales down just 3 per cent from a year earlier.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...n-early-may-condos-tumble-13/article11960360/
 
I think we should all just assume a bubble pop and prepare for the rainy days.

What would the aftermath look like and how long will it take us who wish to ride out the potential housing storm to get back on our feet?

Looking at the history will give us a better picture.

GTA housing price trend in the past 59 years - inflation corrected.

The three housing bubbles we can see on this chart:

1960, 1974 and 1989

1960-1965: It took aprox 5 years to get back from the dip to the peak price level of 1960
1974 - 1987: It took 13 years to get back from the dip to the peak price level of 1974
1989 - 2008: It took 19 years to get back from the dip to the peak price level of 1989

2014: We can probably assume if it happens, it will take 20+ years to recover from it. By then, we are all very old.



2578_4.jpg


Price decline during the last housing bubble:

Below is a chart which shows the inflation adjusted percentage change of house value from 1989 peak to 2012. Almost one third of Toronto - including downtown - is still below the peak of 1989. The areas of Toronto that crashed the most during last housing bubble are still below the last peak, while some other are 50% above it.

Price drop from 1989 to 1996 in toronto.jpg




Historical Bank Rates:

1935-spread_between_prime_rate__bank_rate.jpg


The question should be 'when'.

Do you smell the storm?
 

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Seems like we are inevitably heading towards a deep recession, or a great depression, and it will last for decades.
 
I never discounted the fact that there will always be a housing bubble. Like I said, the very market structure (capitalism and its irrational nature of pursuing max profit, in another word - greed) dictates that housing market will always be in a cycle of bubbling up and pops bust.

The real question is not 'baby, we have a bubble?'. The real question is 'baby, when will our bubble pop?'

and i'm trying to figure out that time-frame. Its definitely scary as hell, but thats the nature of the game.

No one will be a winner in a housing crash, if you are a Canadian and you want to live here for the next many years. No one wants to see job losses, bankruptcy and a low morale.
 

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