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Baby, we got a bubble!?

Just saw on some channel, maybe Bloomberg, that the rate of appreciation in big Canadian cities is unsustainable. That means hot money is moving in. If banks heedlessly lend the inflated prices, then the banking system is headed for a familiar-looking collapse. The banks have to ease up and lend a reasonable amount, forcing buyers to come up with ready cash of their own. Or Canada could be Greece or Iceland.

I don't get how they relate housing appreciation to Greece. I would compare it closer to US. Greece had more problems than housing appreciation. Their policies were fraudulent (tampering with their budget deficit to make themselves look good) and they misused funds by over staffing, over paying, giving high official wage increases, pensions, bonuses, etc. I admit I think there were some problems before with ever increasing wages for government officials. But they seem to be on a wage freeze right now. Some land is also being sold off to finance debt. Retirement has been increased to 67 yrs old now. Some programs are being cut to save money. I think it's on the right track. I think the real estate market will correct itself in due time. Seems like builders are having a harder time selling meaning buyers are being more prudent in the pre-construction sales.

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Greece/Price-History
 
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I think it is somewhat naive to think that Canada will be isolated and cannot undergo a price adjustment.

China just lowered their interest rates ahead of data which will surely show that inflation is less than expected but also I would bet that the economy is slowing more rapidly. Canada being a resource based economy to a degree will see its C$ drop. We are already seeing it vis a vis the USD. That said, we become cheaper for investors to buy our real estate. On the other hand, why invest in a country if the real estate prices stagnate or drop, especially if the currency is losing value.

Surely if we were a go to place before because of our stability, this will be a problem.

The issue with Europeans investing in Canada is more complex as the Euro is also declining vis a vis the USD and is down in C$ from 1 year ago but not so much these past few months.

US investors having been burnt in real estate in the US are unlikely to buy in droves in Canada, even if their USD appreciates somewhat compared to the C$.

Of note; I was just reading in South Florida they are wondering again if prices may hesitate. The Euro last year was $1.40 US vs. $1.25 today.
The Brazilian currency is down I believe 35%. Hence, US real estate which was cheap in their respective currencies is now more expensive.

The C$ was hovering around $1 to $1.02 and is now less than 97 cents, a 5% premium to buy in the US now. Given where Canadians are looking (South Florida, Arizona, California) and some recovery of prices in these areas, the bargains were last year for the Canadians though all these groups may buy less resulting in a further drop in US prices.
We do remain politically stable despite issues in Quebec. However if Charest loses the next election and the PQ gets in, look for "political instability" to rear its head. This would affect presumably house prices all over Canada, though admittedly mostly in Quebec.
 
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thanks for the reply civdis,

my Q though is not the fact that you got a low rate of 2.25%, but was that a commercial loan?
i suspect you may be using another residential property as collateral, unless you're stating it's being used as long-term rental and not as a hotel pool so the lender is viewing 1KW as residential and allowing the residential mortgage rates to prevail.

commercial property loans are currently 5-6%, no where as cheap as residential.

I believe it was considered a residential mortgage when I first obtained it. Gues I got lucky on that one. There is no collateral on it.

As for commercial rates, they have tanked as of late. I am getting rates around 4% on my retail commercial properties. I tend to deal only with AAA national tenants so that has an impact. I currently have a term sheet for a $5M lend at 3.54% from a big 5 bank.
 
It's reasonably tainted. This sucker is one phone call away from a massive special assessment for structural defects. Let's get real. Avoid.

CN Tower,

Were you at our AGM?? The cornice needs replacing and it will have a cost, but it is far from massive and is not a "structural defect". I will admit that if one does not understand the property, from the outside it may look "tainted". I won't complain though because I actually want to upgrade to a larger suite and this 'tainting" only helps. I may have a different perspective as I enjoy my suite and don't care all that much about the appreciation, my money is made in my commercial real estate development company. I would say however, that properties like 1 King that are out of favour with the masses afford the greatest opportunity for wealth creation. As I like to say as a contrarion; Look at where the crowd is going and run the other way!! Long term, 1 King will be a solid piece of anyone's real estate portfolio.
 
Toronto, Vancouver house prices to sink 15% over 2-3 years, TD warns

Toronto-Dominion Bank economists expect house prices in Toronto and Vancouver to sink by at least 15 per cent over the next two to three years.

Canada's two largest real estate markets appear to have gone their separate ways recently, with a slowdown in Vancouver and continued gains in Toronto.

But average prices can be deceiving, said economists Derek Burleton and Leslie Preston.

"The real parting of the ways seems to be between the market for single-family homes, where limited supply has kept prices firm, and the condo market, where construction booms have kept increases more modest for both markets," they said in a report today.

"In the near term, we expect the divergent fortunes of these big-city markets to diminish, but longer term both markets are likely 15-per-cent overvalued. Inventory levels that are already high (Vancouver), or set to head higher (Toronto) make the condo market the bigger concern in both cities.
 
Foreign investment cuts both ways in Toronto condo market

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...-ways-in-toronto-condo-market/article4246468/

Andrea Hopkins and Cameron French
TORONTO — Reuters
Published Monday, Jun. 11 2012, 2:56 AM EDT
Last updated Monday, Jun. 11 2012, 11:05 AM EDT



Talking about Toronto’s condo craze has become something of a sport for residents of Canada’s largest city, where soaring real estate prices and a forest of construction cranes have fed speculation of a real estate bubble.

But the big question is how much of the market is fuelled by cash-rich foreign investors, and whether they, seeking to capitalize on more than a decade of rising prices, are preventing the market from a soft landing.

“Lots of people think that offshore buyers are just coming in to buy, buy, buy. That’s completely wrong, because they’re more cautious than local buyers,†says Tony Ma, president of HomeLife Landmark Realty Inc Brokerage in suburban Toronto.

Mr. Ma’s 500 real estate agents, most of them Mandarin speakers, sold more than 1,280 unbuilt condominiums in Toronto last year to ethnic Chinese buyers hungry for Canadian real estate.

Canada, along with Australia, is a popular destination for global real estate investors seeking a safe and stable place to park their money, given the two countries’ stable economies and financial systems that were mostly untouched by global turmoil.

“There is definitely a foreign investment component to the new condo industry – it makes up the vast majority of sales right now,†said Al Daimee, a real estate agent with Royal LePage who specializes in downtown Toronto condo sales.

Mr. Daimee spots foreign buyers and sellers by the presence of a power of attorney on condo documents – a sure sign, he said, that foreign buyers are using a local contact to close a deal. In fact, he’s done such deals himself.

“The power of attorney approached me directly, saying ‘I have someone to buy in this particular building,’†Mr. Daimee recalled. “The owners were in Beijing but the power of attorney was local. They wanted to flip it right away.â€


Canada does not keep figures about foreign buyers in its real estate sector. While anecdotes about foreign buyers abound, developers argue there is no swell of unsafe investment from abroad, in part because there is enough demand domestically and in part because developers want the safest buyers possible.

“If we have a foreign purchaser, it is difficult for us to mitigate our risk against a loss. So if they decide for whatever reason not to close the transaction, all I have is a deposit. I can’t deal with it beyond that,†said Jim Ritchie, vice-president of sales and marketing for condo developer Tridel.

Mr. Ritchie said 95 per cent of Tridel’s last 2,100 unit sales went to local buyers, although he notes foreign buyers can use a local relative.


With no hard data to distinguish between a Canadian with an ethnic name and a foreign investor with no ties to the country, anecdotal evidence mostly informs the debate over what is driving the development boom.

“I honestly believe that is quite a myth – I don’t think there is a lot of foreign investment happening,†said John Andrew, director of Queen’s University Real Estate Roundtable.

“I think there is a certain amount of investment happening by people the sales people may mistake for foreigners, because they are landed immigrants or they may not be Caucasian.â€

Even if foreign investment could be quantified, experts disagree on the impact it may have.

A report released by the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Services, the Canadian bank regulator, pointed to the prevalence of cash deals by foreigners, a trend that mitigates the risk to developers and lenders.

“There is basically a two-tier market with high-end purchasers often paying cash for high-end units while others are often able to put sizable down payments for lower-priced units,†the report said. It noted that many developers have marketing teams dedicated to foreign buyers.

Mr. Andrew, the real estate professor, said the cash purchases are a big plus for the market and the economy.

“When we first started hearing reports of significant foreign investors, I took that actually as good news, because they are less likely to have leveraged that purchase than Canadians are,†he said.

“That’s actually great for the industry, because as long as they are paying cash, they will not be dumping their product on the market (when interest rates rise).â€

Even if cash-heavy foreign investment does not threaten Canadian banks because little leverage is involved, it may drive up demand and inflate prices. Or it may pop a bubble if circumstances abroad cause money to dry up.

Still, with few other options for investors from China – who are limited as to what they can buy at home and in countries like Australia – OSFI said even a price correction “would not lead to a substantial foreign withdrawal from (the) market.â€

From all appearances, the allure of condos in multicultural Toronto – where half the population was born outside of Canada – may come down to price. With an average price of $368,000, Toronto offers a reasonably low entry point to a market that still offers more long-term return than scks or bonds.

“If you price right, the project will sell,†said Mr. Ma. “The demand is still there and we have lots of investors.â€
 
cdr, I am quite sure the developers know who they are selling to individually if they don't in fact know the aggregate numbers.
Tridel says it is 5% foreign. The agent Daimee says it is the vast majority.

I suspect the developers don't want the numbers out because if it truly is the vast majority, that would confirm that Canadians are no longer buying and that would be inherently unstable. Suggesting 5% only provides comfort to Canadian end purchasers since the foreign buyers as the article suggests will go where they can make a profit.

I disagree with the statement that a price correction would not lead to a substantial foreign withdrawal from the market. The answer is we have no idea what would happen. If however the dollar drop vis a vis the USD as it has (and hence against the Yuan/Remnimbi as it is pegged essentially to the USD) and prices are dropping, I suspect there is no longer a reason to hold the Canadian real estate unless it is for safety reasons and that reasoning is lost if the market is losing value as well as the currency.
 
Toronto, Vancouver house prices to sink 15% over 2-3 years, TD warns

Toronto-Dominion Bank economists expect house prices in Toronto and Vancouver to sink by at least 15 per cent over the next two to three years.

Canada's two largest real estate markets appear to have gone their separate ways recently, with a slowdown in Vancouver and continued gains in Toronto.

But average prices can be deceiving, said economists Derek Burleton and Leslie Preston.

"The real parting of the ways seems to be between the market for single-family homes, where limited supply has kept prices firm, and the condo market, where construction booms have kept increases more modest for both markets," they said in a report today.

"In the near term, we expect the divergent fortunes of these big-city markets to diminish, but longer term both markets are likely 15-per-cent overvalued. Inventory levels that are already high (Vancouver), or set to head higher (Toronto) make the condo market the bigger concern in both cities.

I can definitely believe these numbers. Similar article in the Star today:

http://www.moneyville.ca/article/1209477--toronto-real-estate-crash-not-likely-td-bank-predicts?bn=1

Toronto real estate crash not likely, TD Bank predicts

Mon Jun 11 2012

The Toronto-Dominion banking group says Vancouver and Toronto home prices will probably experience a relatively mild downturn in two to three years — but not the dramatic drop that hit the United States a few years ago.

TD says a 15 per cent decline in Canada’s two most expensive cities is likely in a few years but it will be gradual, rather than the sudden drop of 30 per cent seen in the U.S. real estate market.

The bank’s analysis is consistent with other warnings that Vancouver and Toronto real estate is generally overpriced but supported by low interest rates and a stable economy.

TD says that’s not likely to change this year unless there’s a major economic shock from outside the country.

In the meantime, TD says Vancouver’s real estate market is stabilizing after soaring last year.

But it believes Toronto prices for some types of homes are poised for a robust increase.
 

The real practical issue is that if you have owned investment real estate, a 15% decline is really irrelevant unless planning to sell in the next 5 years anyhow. By the time one factors in the soft costs of say 8-10%, and recaptures depreciation and pays the capital gain assuming there is a capital gain....15% at least of your equity is wiped out anyhow. If you were to assume that you would buy back real estate again at the 15% decline I would argue you are not very far ahead.

If you are going to take out your money, you have to invest it somewhere. I guess one could make an argument for GIC's or Bank stock and get 4-5% return +/- capital gain but that is no more certain. The stock market of late has not performed well.

The real question is will there be 10-15% decline.... not too much of an event for longer term investors vs. speculators or will it be 25-30%...which would definitely be an issue in my opinion.

As the article points out, and we have said before, there will be some divergence between condos and SFH, though as condos become more affordable more quickly, the disparity will become greater thereby alleviating some of the condo pressures. Also, I suspect unless things really lead to stagnation, that interest rates will remain low with devaluation of the C$ if house prices decline significantly as so much of the Canadian worth is tied up in housing.
 
Signs of sanity in Toronto’s condo craze

Ottawa’s efforts to cool off Toronto’s red-hot condominium market appear to be having an impact, as prices begin to ease and developers pull back on projects and bidding for land.

In recent weeks, prices on existing units have been softening, while some developers have abandoned or rewritten their plans for new condo projects, industry experts and insiders say. Prospective buyers are also increasingly cautious in a market where prices have shot up about 50 per cent since 2005.

So far, the evidence of a slowdown is primarily anecdotal, not statistical. But some economists are hopeful that the signs are pointing to a modest, and relatively painless, correction in condo prices.

That would reduce the potential damage of a rapid decline and bring much relief to policy makers like Finance Minister Jim Flaherty and Bank of Canada Governor Mark Carney. Both have been openly worried that the frenetic building boom in condos in Canada’s most populous city will lead to a market crash, pulling not only real-estate investors but many young first-time buyers down with it.

According to research firm Urbanation Inc., more than 6,000 new units sold between January and March of this year, the highest amount ever for that period. Developers are seeking to cash in on the frenzy, and more new units are now under way in Toronto than any other city in North America.

But on Monday, economists at Toronto-Dominion Bank said they expect a price correction of at least 15 per cent in the next two to three years for homes in Toronto and Vancouver. And Craig Wright, senior vice-president and chief economist at RBC, is now predicting that demand will ease next year because of rising interest rates in the forth quarter.

A severe downturn in the market would cause significant problems for the government, not only because it would cause economic shock waves but because both Mr. Flaherty and Mr. Carney would inevitably shoulder a large portion of the public blame. The tactics used so successfully to keep the market going in the wake of the financial crisis – namely prodding the banks to lend more by purchasing $69-billion worth of their mortgages and maintaining record-low interest rates – are part of the reason why condo prices in Canadian home prices have reached levels that almost all experts say are unsustainable.

During this period, Mr. Flaherty and Mr. Carney have unleashed a torrent of words aimed at convincing banks, developers and buyers to be careful. Now, it seems, buyers may be heeding those warnings.

“People are really scared right now,†said real estate agent and author Brian Persaud. “When Flaherty says the condo market is overheated, you get people who have bought [units] walking away within the 10 day cooling off period.â€

A number of condo projects that have recently hit the market have had a tough time selling units, he said. “Before, in the first couple of months you’d sell out maybe 70 per cent of the building. That’s not happening now – some buildings are languishing at 30 or 40 per cent sales.â€

Historically, the Canadian banks have waited for 70 per cent of a new condo development to be sold before agreeing to finance the project, taking unit deposits as security. But now it seems that isn’t enough: Some nervous banks are requiring sale of up to 80 per cent.

This pushes developers further to secure sales. “They are coming to guys like me and saying ‘Brian, come sell our units. We’ll offer you higher commission. We’ll give people better incentives,’†Mr. Persaud said.

There are other “sobering†indicators signalling that the condo industry is self-correcting, said Julie Di Lorenzo, president of Diamante Development Corp. and an industry veteran.

“People don’t talk about the recent relaunches or cancellations [of projects]. They make it sound like everything’s rosy, that everything’s great right now,†she added, noting that overpriced projects don’t get sold.

Once developers have invested in rezoning land and designing a project, they’ll have a financial stake in the building at least until its closing, a process that takes upward of five years. That’s a long time in an uncertain market. “Fewer developers are bidding on land right now,†Ms. Di Lorenzo said.

“This is not out in the market yet, but if you look in the high-end, namely condominiums that have been selling for more than $700 per square foot, we are seeing some gradual decline in prices there,†said Benjamin Tal, deputy chief economist at CIBC World Markets. “And I think that will trickle down to lower-priced condominiums.â€

But this healthy cooling of the market may not be enough protection against an investor exodus should interest rates rise by about 150 basis points, Mr. Tal said. At that point, many investors would not be able to meet their costs through rental income from their tenants.

It’s even harder for Ottawa’s policy makers and economists to gauge what affects this could have, since Canada does not keep reliable real-estate data on the influence of foreign investors.

Even within Canada, the big-city markets are unlikely to respond to higher rates exactly the same way. Real-estate investors in Toronto’s tall towers are less loyal to the city than those in Vancouver, where many of the investors, for instance, have a spouse in China but live here or spend much of their time in Canada, Mr. Tal said.

If interest rates increase significantly, many investors could leave the market, causing prices to decrease.

“Any softening that we’re seeing now is a bonus,†Mr. Tal said. “It will prepare us for the eventual increase in interest rates. Builders are sensing this already, and we see more and more builders downscaling future purchases of land.â€

Of course, it’s possible the stern warnings of Mr. Carney and Mr. Flaherty could become a little too effective.

Stephen Diamond, CEO of developer Diamondcorp, expects to see the market slow, but asks “what are the consequences? Have the governments damaged an otherwise healthy market?†A soft-landing could offer protection, but frightening investors stands to produce a new set of problems. After all, investor-owned condos soon become the city’s rental units.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...anity-in-torontos-condo-craze/article4249399/
 
So that bonus to the CEO of Build Toronto for 10 York may have been a bit premature? City still hasn't received a penny for that plot of land and we gave the CEO a bonus on speculation on what the City might receive in the future.

I have no issue with a large bonus, but it should be on actual achievements not speculated achievements.
 
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Stephen Diamond, CEO of developer Diamondcorp, expects to see the market slow, but asks “what are the consequences? Have the governments damaged an otherwise healthy market?” A soft-landing could offer protection, but frightening investors stands to produce a new set of problems. After all, investor-owned condos soon become the city’s rental units.

not to worry, concert and other developers (minto, greenwin plus possibly more) are building rental towers across the city with the same features and ameniities as condos.
 
Toronto braces for a deflating condo bubble

"Everyone is uncertain about what is going to happen in the condo market in the next few years," said Steve Gagro, a senior manager at Laurentian Bank of Canada who specializes in lending to real estate developers.

By Andrea Hopkins | Reuters – Mon, 11 Jun, 2012 6:05 AM EDT

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/toronto-braces-deflating-condo-bubble-050611209--finance.html

TORONTO (Reuters) - Each panelist at a recent Toronto real estate conference had a reason why the city's condo market is not a bubble. But the developers, the lender, the receiver, the marketer and the real estate agent each talked about the things that worry them.

"Everyone is uncertain about what is going to happen in the condo market in the next few years," said Steve Gagro, a senior manager at Laurentian Bank of Canada who specializes in lending to real estate developers.

With 325 condominium projects on the market and another 173 towers under construction, Toronto's skyline is spiking with condo units and cranes, with more new buildings underway than in any other city in North America.

The building boom and 15 years of rising prices have stirred worries about a real estate bubble in Canada's largest city, where historically low interest rates have encouraged buyers to take on more household debt than ever.

Industry stakeholders stress that the potential for a crash is slight, and most of the talk at the Queen's University seminar was about the strengths of the market.

But as construction cranes swiveled outside the windows, the discussion repeatedly circled round to the danger signals that have become impossible to ignore, similar to pilots explaining why they are packing parachutes to take onboard.

The developers talked about tighter financing and affordability. The real estate agent wondered about a growing gap between new condos and the resale market. The bankruptcy specialist worried about high supply and few players. The salesman talked about skittish investors and bad press.

While it sounds like Canada may be importing the 2008 housing bubble from its neighbors to the south, nearly everyone in the industry argues that Canada is different.

It did not suffer the financial crisis the rest of the world did in 2009, mortgage interest is not tax deductible as in the United States, mortgages are not repackaged and resold among lenders, and there is very little subprime market.

The market, too, is different.

"Demographics does an awful lot to support this condo market," said Jim Ritchie, head of sales and marketing at Tridel Corp, one of Toronto's largest condo developers.

Toronto, with an area population of 5.8 million, accepts about 100,000 new immigrants every year. The bulk of them are from countries where dense urban living is common, and a hard-to-determine number of foreign buyers are helping to prop up the market.

Efforts to encircle the city with a green belt of undeveloped land has limited some of the sprawl, creating a virtual island that mimics pricey real estate centers like Manhattan, Hong Kong and Singapore.

Mortgage rates that start at 2.4 percent and don't rise beyond 6.75 percent have boosted affordability, especially compared with pricier single-family homes. The average condo price is C$368,000 (US$378,000) less than half the C$821,000 (US$844,000) it costs to buy a house.

But even developers who say there is no bubble speculate publicly about what will happen when the boom starts to cool, and everyone appears braced for bad.

"Condominium development is good, it's part of our business," said Ben Rogowski, executive vice president of developer Canderel Group. "If a year from now it is not good, we have lots of other skill sets and we will focus on a different part of the business until we feel that it is there again."

Canderel is focused on inner Toronto and has no plans to change.

"I think we will continue to focus on downtown, because when things do change, they probably will fall from the outside in. In our opinion ... the margins will still be ... downtown," Rogowski said.

LENDERS ON A LEASH

There is little question that concern about the Canadian housing market is making its way from the corridors of power in Ottawa to the big banks, which hold the purse strings for both developers and home buyers.

"I believe the uncertainty (about the condo market) is increasing potential risk associated with lending," said Laurentian Bank's Gagro.

A banker who specializes in lending money to real estate developers, Gagro said Canada's banking regulator, the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Services, has been making the rounds of Canada's big banks to make sure they are not making bad loans that will bring the industry closer to a bust.

"Over the last little while OSFI has come in and shaken the chain a little bit with respect to condo exposures, so everyone is a little more cognizant of who they are dealing with and how they are structuring the deals," said Gagno. He noted that developers must typically sell at least 80 percent of units in a project before construction can begin.

"Banks are going to be selective about who they are dealing with ... how deep their pockets are, their ability to respond to financial obligations, a demonstrated track record and being able to bring projects to market," he said.

The tighter financing reassures Ray Drost, senior vice president and partner at Ernst & Young Real Estate Services, the team called in when bankruptcy threatens a developer or a project and restructuring must be done.

"Our restructuring practice is probably the largest in Canada and I can tell you we've been called on one project in the last 36 months - one," he said.

Drost says a huge pipeline of supply is one concern, but believes the big players will weather a cooling in the market.

"I think it will slow down but I don't know if we're going to see a lot of failures, frankly," he said, noting he has lived through several corrections and knows the signs.

"I think probably the ones you will see or hear about are smaller developers who haven't managed their marketing well, that have maybe cut corners where they shouldn't have, and have not really matched up the project to the target market."

A final concern is whether projects are being rushed to market before interest rates rise or consumer confidence retreats. New starts of urban Canadian condo projects dropped 21 percent in May, nearly reversing a 27 percent increase the previous month, and remain well above historical averages, the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp said on Friday.

But the threat of higher interest rates has been raised so often and for so long that no one is sure how much attention to pay to the risk of slightly higher borrowing costs in 2013 or 2014.

Tridel's Ritchie sees mixed signs, with investors looking to flip condos or rent them out more worried than younger buyers who cannot believe Toronto real estate will ever be a losing bet.

"We have a lot of people in our buyer profile who have never experienced anything but an up market - so they keep coming back to the trough, so to speak," Ritchie said. "But it doesn't always work that way."

========

i found this interesting but i wonder if the younger buyers will heed the many warnings

"We have a lot of people in our buyer profile who have never experienced anything but an up market - so they keep coming back to the trough, so to speak," Ritchie said. "But it doesn't always work that way."
 
From the Globe and Mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...-markets-set-for-a-correction/article4247042/



Anyone watching recent real estate data out of Toronto and Vancouver has probably concluded that the Vancouver market is starting to weaken while Toronto’s is still firing on all cylinders.

Figures from the Canadian Real Estate Board showed that house prices fell 7.5 per cent in Vancouver in April from a year earlier, while Toronto prices rose by 8.5 per cent.

But economists at Toronto-Dominion Bank warn that the two cities are diverging less than this data suggest. “In the near term, we expect the divergent fortunes of these big-city markets to diminish, but longer term both markets are likely 15 per cent overvalued,” Derek Burleton and Leslie Preston, write in a new report.

“Perhaps the most striking similarity is the fact that both markets have been driven largely by condo activity, reflecting demographic trends, erosion in affordability of single-family homes [and] land scarcity due to either geography (Vancouver) or regulations (Toronto).”

Over the last decade, 73 per cent of new housing in Vancouver has been multiple unit housing. In Toronto, the figure is 63 per cent. The trend has accelerated over the last year, with 80 per cent of new housing in Vancouver consisting of multi units and 74 per cent in Toronto.

Market trends have supported new condo supply for a long time. Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp., for example, estimates that between 20 per cent and 25 per cent of all condo purchases in Vancouver and Toronto are made by investors, who rent the units. Nevertheless, the winds are shifting, Mr. Burleton and Ms. Preston say.

“Vancouver appears to be wrestling with a growing challenge of oversupply while in Toronto, the worries surround over-building and the potential for a supply glut over the medium term,” they write.

Condo prices in Vancouver have been essentially flat since mid 2008 and prices in Toronto have increased moderately by 5 per cent, year on year. In Toronto there is enough new supply coming to market to last for nearly two years, based on recent buying patterns, the economists say.

“The concern is when the units are completed, do owners put them up for sale again, which would increase the supply on the resale market and put downward pressure on prices? Or, if they go on the rental market, are there are enough renters to absorb the supply set to come on the market over the next few years?,” write Mr. Burleton and Ms. Preston.

“Even if demand stays robust, we suspect that a share of the bulge in units currently under construction will remain unsold and lead to growing inventories.”

While the economists forecast that prices in both Vancouver and Toronto will decline by 15 per cent over the next two to three years, they warn that any major shock to the economy from abroad could make the correction faster and deeper.
10 comments
 
From the Star:

http://www.thestar.com/business/art...rings-work-space-to-condo-heavy-downtown?bn=1

Bay, Adelaide office tower brings work space to condo-heavy downtown

Toronto’s newest office tower is set to bring employment space to a sea of residential buildings.

There are six office buildings currently under development in the city’s core, compared to 12 new high-rise condos, with more than 5,700 units, now under construction.

The $464 million (U.S.) Bay Adelaide Centre East project is expected to break ground in the fall and be completed in 2015 or early 2016, Brookfield Office Properties Inc. said Tuesday.

“Any new office building in the downtown core is welcome. We need more employment space,” said Iain Dobson, researcher and former commercial brokerage executive. “We have built so much residential space, and we haven’t built up a comparable amount of office space.”

Professional services firm Deloitte Canada has signed on as the anchor tenant of the new building, which is the second tower in the Bay Adelaide complex. The new space will bring together employees from five different downtown offices on 17 floors.

The tower comes as a growing number of companies are renewing their commitment, or making a new one, to keep operations in the city’s downtown core.

In 2009, Telus consolidated 1,600 people from 15 offices across the GTA into a new 30-storey glass tower near Union Station.

Coca-Cola, Corus Entertainment, SNC-Lavalin and Salesforce.com are among other companies that have also moved downtown.

“It’s another example of how the downtown core and Toronto in general seem to be completely resilient to what’s going on around the world in Europe and China,” said John Arnoldi, managing director, Toronto region, for Colliers International, a commercial realtor.

“It’s a realization that our economy is strong and the fundamentals are there to build new towers. If this was Boston or Denver or Houston, they would have been building ten-fold what we have built.”

The vacancy rate for downtown office space is currently about 5 per cent, Arnoldi said.

The rush for downtown space is also being fuelled by a condo boom that is bringing tens of thousands of young workers to the city’s core.

“When there’s a housing base there, the retail comes and the office comes. There’s a demand for a 24-7 type of environment. It’s the whole live, work play scenario,” said John O’Toole, executive managing director at CBRE Ltd. in Toronto. “It’s truly happening in Toronto now.”

Bay Adelaide Centre East, located on Adelaide Street West between Bay and Yonge Streets, will be a 44-storey, 980,000-square-foot office tower with direct access to subways and the PATH underground concourse.

“Deloitte decided to consolidate its downtown Toronto offices in a work environment which will inspire collaboration, teamwork and learning in order to deliver outstanding client assignments,” Frank Vettese, managing partner and chief executive of Deloitte Canada, told the Star in an email.

“Our considerable growth over the years has led us to operate from multiple locations which has been suboptimal. We are also looking to build a community that is premised on both engagement and sustainability.”

The first building on the site, 51-storey, 1.2-million-square-foot Bay Adelaide Centre West opened in 2009 and is 95 per cent leased. At the time it was developed, it was the first new office tower in Toronto’s financial core in 17 years.

In addition to the first two Bay Adelaide Centre towers, the third and final phase of the development, Bay Adelaide Centre North, can accommodate additional new development of approximately 500,000 square feet.




The question is: Is there enough office tower new space to justify more people working/living downtown to explain 38000 expected condos over the next 2 years which if we assume 1 and 1/2 people on average / condo means 57000 more people wanting to work/live in downtown?
 

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