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Automobile City

The one idea that Pitfield had was to build a subway station every year or whatever it was. It makes a lot more sense to have a continual subway expansion than these shorts bursts of expensive one-off expansions. Hence we have the Spadina extension and Sheppard subway. If we had continual expansion every year, we could add one station at a time, and not worry about making it a "terminal" (with all the facilities that entails) for each one until we actually reach the terminal. And just open up the stations as they get built.

There's absolutely no reason why Toronto shouldn't grow its subway network. Look at Madrid. Toronto is a big city. And it needs big city transit.
 
Congratulations on your lack of a sense of humour, suv. FYI, we've had a rash of multiple account posters and bizarro posters lately...this thread's intersection of transit and development makes it fertile ground for the flamewars that tend to attract such posters.

I find it both highly amusing and completely ridiculous that I've been cited for a Borg mentality - I rarely agree with anybody! For starters, I voted for Pitfield :)

Clearly, people aren't all on the same page re: the importance of transit. Glen believes that the TTC shouldn't expand at all (even though expansion in the 416 is a prerequisite to serving 905 jobs, not to mention the backlog of people that get left behind on platforms and at the side of the road).



Actually, the rezoning has been from bungalows to townhouses and condos, and from 1 storey retail to condos and offices with retail at street level...jobs have been created. There's plenty of land left for office buildings should they be wanted and the only prime office land "lost" that I'm aware of is the old Imperial Oil site. It is extremely pound wise to build condos on transit lines - many of the jobs in the 905 are nearly impossible to serve with viable transit lines that people will want to take.

Feel free to sift through census data to find a few tracts that are defying cohort trends and the demographic transition doady mentioned (anecdotal evidence doesn't cut it since everyone else has as much random intimate knowledge as you to use). On the internet, one exception out of 100 cases is worth its weight in gold. Plenty of Toronto neighbourhoods/schools have climbing numbers of school kids...the 905 is not immune to demographic change. Parts of Toronto were only more susceptible to school closures because schools were overbuilt in the 60s-80s period - earlier and more recent schools tend to be larger, greatly reducing the chances that they'll be closed.

Sorry, i really wanted to stay away.

Check this smart guy. Too many schools, not enough students: TDSB
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/...oo-many-schools-not-enough-students-tdsb.aspx

91 TDSB schools are not warranted, they have less than 300 kids. Each will be reviewed for closure.

In the last twenty years the TDSB had declined by 75 000 kids.

In the next ten years, for every 3 kids in high school now, the TDSB will have 2 kids - quote unquote directly from Sheila Penny, Superintendant of Facilities - TDSB.

The only schools built in the last three years is in North Scarborough, Gold LEED Brookside P.S.; Silver LEED Thomas Wells P.S.

The only school being planned is one for the McAshpalt development on Meadowvale (north Scarborough).

The only Catholic School slated to be built is the one beside Brookside P.S., construction slated for 2008/2009.

Pt. Union may warrant one.

The TDSB has massive closures coming.... check your facts.
 
Congratulations on your lack of a sense of humour, suv. FYI, we've had a rash of multiple account posters and bizarro posters lately...this thread's intersection of transit and development makes it fertile ground for the flamewars that tend to attract such posters.

I find it both highly amusing and completely ridiculous that I've been cited for a Borg mentality - I rarely agree with anybody! For starters, I voted for Pitfield :)

Clearly, people aren't all on the same page re: the importance of transit. Glen believes that the TTC shouldn't expand at all (even though expansion in the 416 is a prerequisite to serving 905 jobs, not to mention the backlog of people that get left behind on platforms and at the side of the road).



Actually, the rezoning has been from bungalows to townhouses and condos, and from 1 storey retail to condos and offices with retail at street level...jobs have been created. There's plenty of land left for office buildings should they be wanted and the only prime office land "lost" that I'm aware of is the old Imperial Oil site. It is extremely pound wise to build condos on transit lines - many of the jobs in the 905 are nearly impossible to serve with viable transit lines that people will want to take.

Feel free to sift through census data to find a few tracts that are defying cohort trends and the demographic transition doady mentioned (anecdotal evidence doesn't cut it since everyone else has as much random intimate knowledge as you to use). On the internet, one exception out of 100 cases is worth its weight in gold. Plenty of Toronto neighbourhoods/schools have climbing numbers of school kids...the 905 is not immune to demographic change. Parts of Toronto were only more susceptible to school closures because schools were overbuilt in the 60s-80s period - earlier and more recent schools tend to be larger, greatly reducing the chances that they'll be closed.

Oh, I am funny as hell. :) It's just when I read shite as fact, i get annoyed.

I too voted for Pitfield, come on, group hug. Let's put Miller in the middle and crust the damn commie.

So sorry for coming across as an asshat. Asshat's bring out the orifice in me. :)
 
Well, suv, your "farewell" lasted as long as the Who's.

I don't think any of us "retards" posted "shite" statistics. I think I feel that AoD's census population maps are a little more credible than school closures as a measure of population growth. And, if I recall, my post on this thread - the one you first attacked - had to do with channeling development into nodes; the city of Toronto has the largest share of residential development in this city and much of that occurs in the several nodes which I advocate for expanded development.
 
School closures is NOT an accurate measure of absolute changes in population growth since it doesn't take into account the nature of family structure. In fact, given what we know of condo construction in the city (i.e. 1-2 bedroom units), it is highly unlikely that the current influx of population to the various development nodes will have much if any impact on school enrolment. Using the latter as a proxy clearly would give an erroneous impression that population is declining in these areas. It's far safer to look at population demographics FIRST and project school environment than the other way around.

AoD
 
School closures is NOT an accurate measure of absolute changes in population growth since it doesn't take into account the nature of family structure. In fact, given what we know of condo construction in the city (i.e. 1-2 bedroom units), it is highly unlikely that the current influx of population to the various development nodes will have much if any impact on school enrolment. Using the latter as a proxy clearly would give an erroneous impression that population is declining in these areas. It's far safer to look at population demographics FIRST and project school environment than the other way around.

AoD

Tell that to Scarberiankhat.

Unfortunately, stats and maps are used around here like drunks use lamposts. To lean on for support, not for illumination. (kudows to the guy who came up with that line).

He brought schools into the equation of growth. Whatever one may think. Communities with lots of children are not growing. There is no growth happening where most kids are. Nope where the school board sees new schools required, there is no growth whatsoever. Childrena appear and dissappear like magic fairy dust at 9 a.m and 4 p.m.
 
suv:

He brought schools into the equation of growth. Whatever one may think. Communities with lots of children are not growing. There is no growth happening where most kids are. Nope where the school board sees new schools required, there is no growth whatsoever. Childrena appear and dissappear like magic fairy dust at 9 a.m and 4 p.m.

Where is the data to support your conjecture that 1. communities with lots of children are not growing (what is does "lots of children mean" exactly? numerical population? relative percentage of population? changes in either or both?); 2. there is no growth where the kids are; and 3. schools are needed where there is no growth?

Unfortunately, stats and maps are used around here like drunks use lamposts.

Clearly not nearly as badly as conjectures and hypothesis masquerading as "facts". In addition I did some brief checks of the history of this thread - and came up with this post:

To use hipster duck as an example, I suspect the view point posted about Toronto's growth versus the overwhelming evidence against the 'Toronto growth story' is very prevalent amongst the downtown/midtown crowd. There is reality, then there is the story told about Toronto and its growth, whereas growth is eminating at a startling pace everywhere but downtown/midtown Toronto (will soon have massive school closures).

Guess who posted it and brought the school issue into debate?

AoD
 
suv:



Where is the data to support your conjecture that 1. communities with lots of children are not growing (what is does "lots of children mean" exactly? numerical population? relative percentage of population? changes in either or both?); 2. there is no growth where the kids are; and 3. schools are needed where there is no growth?



Clearly not nearly as badly as conjectures and hypothesis masquerading as "facts". In addition I did some brief checks of the history of this thread - and came up with this post:



Guess who posted it and brought the school issue into debate?

AoD

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone and I'm playing fetch with a dog who keeps returning no matter how far i toss that damn stick.

Clearly sarcasm was missed the first time around.

Heavens to murgatroid....exiting stage left pronto before I catch what you got (tossing stick as far as Jesse Barfield can a ball)...(now running like hell)...
 
So is this really goodbye, or can we expect the comeback tour in 3 hours?

For you my feathery duck billed, tail feather shaking concubine, I can never say goodbye. I can only stare deeply into your blank eyes and reminisce about the days (and nights) that never were.

Au revoir, mon cherrie. We will always have the Rouge....:cool:
 
Tell that to Scarberiankhat.

Unfortunately, stats and maps are used around here like drunks use lamposts. To lean on for support, not for illumination. (kudows to the guy who came up with that line).

He brought schools into the equation of growth. Whatever one may think. Communities with lots of children are not growing. There is no growth happening where most kids are. Nope where the school board sees new schools required, there is no growth whatsoever. Childrena appear and dissappear like magic fairy dust at 9 a.m and 4 p.m.

No, suv, you brought up schools in an attempt to prove that Toronto's doomed. The fast growing parts of the 905 will cease to be so in 20 years or less...that's how quickly the land will run out.

I just pointed out that some of Toronto's past problems regarding school enrollment will affect the 905 in the future. Nowhere did I say Toronto won't see another school closure. The TCDSB is prone to more closures if the religious make-up of a neighbourhood changes, but so is the TDSB because they still have cases of multiple schools per subdivision/neighbourhood unit even after some closures. By newer schools I also meant renovated/rebuilt schools...the Toronto boards no longer build schools designed for like 200 kids as they did a generation ago, but there's quite a few still hanging around.

Having worked for a school board, I know there's also an obscene amount of school repairs or complete rebuilds necessary and closing two small schools across the street from each other while rebuilding them as one large school makes sense. The 905, by virtue of mostly being developed later, is less overbuilt in terms of superfluous schools (one reason is that their subdivisions/neighbourhood units are often larger) but their demographics are more homogenous than the 416, which doesn't bode well for school closures later.

You'll be back, suv...you came to this forum to argue.
 
I voted for Jane Pitfield as well. On a municipal level, City Hall needs a much stronger, if not dominant, right wing. I should start a new group on facebook - Downtown Torontonians for a Conservative Mayor. I'd do it if it wasn't for the fact that only 5 people would join, LOL.
 
I know the Peel boards have tried to avoid overbuilding schools like Etobicoke and other places did, but then both boards got blasted by parents for housing students in portables. To this day, portables are still used, but not as much as they were when I was in school I don't think. There used to be massive amounts of portables, at least at the Catholic schools I went to (St Rose of Lima and St Joseph SS in Mississauga).

What's funny was they finally built a school in our subdivision (St Gregory) in 1997-1998, and then a few years ago they had to make an addition (already! even before the school had been open 10 years!). Why didn't they just build it the right size to begin with? I guess they probably just forecast wrong. But it bothers me because the new brick doesn't match the old brick exactly (how hard is it to get the same-coloured brick? It's not like the school was built in the 19th century and the materials are hard to come by). [/rant]
 
I know the Peel boards have tried to avoid overbuilding schools like Etobicoke and other places did, but then both boards got blasted by parents for housing students in portables. To this day, portables are still used, but not as much as they were when I was in school I don't think. There used to be massive amounts of portables, at least at the Catholic schools I went to (St Rose of Lima and St Joseph SS in Mississauga).

What's funny was they finally built a school in our subdivision (St Gregory) in 1997-1998, and then a few years ago they had to make an addition (already! even before the school had been open 10 years!). Why didn't they just build it the right size to begin with? I guess they probably just forecast wrong. But it bothers me because the new brick doesn't match the old brick exactly (how hard is it to get the same-coloured brick? It's not like the school was built in the 19th century and the materials are hard to come by). [/rant]

Wow you followed me around quite a bit. I also went to St. Rose of Lima and holy shit... I never once had a class within the actual school. When I moved to St. Gregory I finally had a classroom, but a year later it was back to portables. Today, St. Gregory has no portables, St. Rose has cut back drastically, and OLGV has also cut back. The reason St. Gregory was overcrowded was because it was a holding school until St. Valentine and some other school was built. After my year graduated, the numbers all went down.

As for St. Joes, in my last year I didn't have a single class in a portable. I dont know if it was just luck or if the schools population was lower though.
 
Wow you followed me around quite a bit. I also went to St. Rose of Lima and holy shit... I never once had a class within the actual school. When I moved to St. Gregory I finally had a classroom, but a year later it was back to portables. Today, St. Gregory has no portables, St. Rose has cut back drastically, and OLGV has also cut back. The reason St. Gregory was overcrowded was because it was a holding school until St. Valentine and some other school was built. After my year graduated, the numbers all went down.

As for St. Joes, in my last year I didn't have a single class in a portable. I dont know if it was just luck or if the schools population was lower though.

You're younger than me then. I did 7 and 8 at St Rose (both inside the school itself lol), though my brother did grade 8 at St. Gregory, and my sister did several years at St Gregory. My older sister, myself and my brother all went to St Joe's (I was class of 2000, but then the year of OAC after), but my little sister went to Holy Name.

I live on Kisby Dr (right off of Bancroft, just after Creditview), where do you live? Oh and it's more like you followed ME around quite a bit, kid.
 

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