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Are you watching The olympics?

^ Nah, I *really* doubt that, and think you're ascribing an intent to it that just wasn't there, along with giving the organizers of these kinds of events far too much credit. A coup like that would've been way beyond them, I suspect, unless there's something about the 'artists' involved that I don't know about. Just because it happened during that era doesn't mean they were hip to such things - the notion of those charged with overseeing this sort of event being hip at all seems highly unlikely. I was quite young at the time, but sensed no intentional irony at all - what evidence would you put forth for such a claim? It seemed entirely earnest to me. In your opinion, would those ceremonies therefore have been unique in recent Olympic history as having been intentionally tacky?

Also, consider that this is the same period and town that gave us such thoroughly irony-bereft works as "Rambo: First Blood Part II" and "Rocky IV". Despite what was going on in elite art and design circles, the dominant pop culture of the time was decidedly straight-faced and sincere in approach.
 
There were strange cultural crosscurrents happening then, esp. in places like L.A.; for a parallel 80s case, think of the Eisner-ization of Disney. The L.A. Olympic aesthetic was very much of a piece with that--even the ceremony seemed backhandedly infused with the "PoMo moment". And it actually didn't matter whether the participants themselves were, strictly speaking, "hip to it". (Though it helped that the whole *physical* setup at L.A. was PoMo to the bone.) Let's say, it was the moment when the tacky became somehow "virtuous"--a trickling-up of the whole Venturi's Vegas or, more to the point, Banham's or Charles Moore's (or early Gehry's, for that matter) L.A. thing. For that shining moment, cheese was alright--it's why Reagan was able to get away with practically anything.

And if you compare that particular apotheosis of Reagan's "Morning In America" with present-day Dubyah's AmeriKKKa, you'll notice the difference...
 
OK, but...

"it actually didn't matter whether the participants themselves were, strictly speaking, "hip to it". "

...to me it does. Intent is primary, and if it wasn't there, then I don't believe it can be claimed that the ceremonies were meant to be tacky - they just were. PoMo implies self-awareness, does it not?

"it's why Reagan was able to get away with practically anything."

Personally, I think Reagan got away with everything because that was the dawn of the 'friendly fascist' era - which for all its outlandish horrors and absurdities, I find mostly un-tacky.

"And if you compare that particular apotheosis of Reagan's "Morning In America" with present-day Dubyah's AmeriKKKa, you'll notice the difference..."

Not sure about that: American Idol, Ashcroft's "Let the Eagle Soar", rampant bad computer graphics, Toby Keith, etc. There's a hell of a lot of tacky out there right now, and it seems to be deemed just fine by the rabble. I don't find this era fundamentally different from that one, but more like a super-amplified version - a grotesque version of the grotesque. Hell, it's even the same people - literally - in charge, just minus the few restraints which were mercifully placed on them before.
 
Also, consider that this is the same period and town that gave us such thoroughly irony-bereft works as "Rambo: First Blood Part II" and "Rocky IV". Despite what was going on in elite art and design circles, the dominant pop culture of the time was decidedly straight-faced and sincere in approach.
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Say what you will, but the whole popcult setup even for such films wasn't as "irony-bereft" as it appears--there's a reason why post-9/11 commentators referred to this as the "age of irony". It wasn't just an elite-circles thing no more.

Though yes, the irony-friendly setup may have been a smokescreen for straight-faced sincerity. (That's the Reagan era for you. In the post-ironic Bush era, no smokescreen's necessary.)
 
^ I think you've got the whole thing pegged almost a decade too early in a *mainstream* sense (I mean really mainstream, like Olympics-mainstream). Seems to me that PoMo-style ironic distanciation didn't become a mainstream pop culture device until the early 90s, maybe the last couple of years of the 80s at the very earliest. David Lynch's aesthetic, for example, didn't become acceptable to or understood by the mainstream until 1990 with Twin Peaks, despite him having given us Blue Velvet in '86. Hip-hop didn't really start to hit middle America until "Paul's Boutique" ('89) or "Straight Outta Compton" (ditto). What would you cite as a specific example of an alleged not-so-obvious early-80s mainstream ironic pop culture setup? I have real trouble understanding that decade as having been essentially and broadly ironic in approach, except on the cutting edge (tacky is not the same thing). The 90s, not so, of course.
 
Ah, duelling posts, not knowing what the other person's written. (And who knows if you'll have written anything by the time I post *this* one...)
...to me it does. Intent is primary, and if it wasn't there, then I don't believe it can be claimed that the ceremonies were meant to be tacky - they just were. PoMo implies self-awareness, does it not?
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Well, first of all, the Olympic facilities proper were aggressively PoMo in aesthetic (self-awareness and all)--and that wound up bestowing, "by proxy" as it were, a certain "aura" about everything, Ameri-jingoism, sweet Mary Lou Retton and all. Maybe one might say, it became *ironically* ironic...

And secondly, remember that the "intent" thing goes both ways--not just w/creator, but w/beholder as well. So it's a little more complicated than obtusely design-related "self-awareness". Thus it wasn't just that Venturi's "Learning From Las Vegas" influenced "self-aware" design in the manner of Venturi's Vegas; it also influenced a certain aestheticized mode of appreciating Las Vegas and other strains of commercial archaeology out there--little or none of which was "self-aware" in a literally (proto-)PoMo way.

Heck, ultimately, it's the same sensibility that led to "ironic" (or not) embraces of white-trash culture, B-movies, Top 40 junk etc. So ultimately, w/the Olympic ceremonies, it bled into real time--that is, it was cheesy, but it felt (was meant to feel?) real good and magical and, y'know, kinda Casey Kasem-like. And "Casey Kasem-like" never felt more transcendent than when validated through this trickled-up domestication of cultural PoMo.

Yes, you're right that in hindsight, it was but the dawn of "friendly fascism"--but at least at that particular moment, ooh, it felt so good. Remember: within high-minded design/planning circles, viz. L.A., Reyner Banham's hedonism still ruled. Mike Davis's soberingly dystopian City Of Quartz was still five years into the future...
Not sure about that: American Idol, Ashcroft's "Let the Eagle Soar", rampant bad computer graphics, Toby Keith, etc. There's a hell of a lot of tacky out there right now, and it seems to be deemed just fine by the rabble. I don't find this era fundamentally different from that one, but more like a super-amplified version - a grotesque version of the grotesque. Hell, it's even the same people - literally - in charge, just minus the few restraints which were mercifully placed on them before.
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Perhaps the difference now is that it's *only* the rabble who deem it "just fine" anymore.

Ultimately, well...Susan Sontag is dead...
 
^ I think you've got the whole thing pegged almost a decade too early in a *mainstream* sense (I mean really mainstream, like Olympics-mainstream). Seems to me that PoMo-style ironic distanciation didn't become a mainstream pop culture device until the early 90s, maybe the last couple of years of the 80s at the very earliest. David Lynch's aesthetic, for example, didn't become acceptable to or understood by the mainstream until 1990 with Twin Peaks, despite him having given us Blue Velvet in '86. Hip-hop didn't really start to hit middle America until "Paul's Boutique" ('89) or "Straight Outta Compton" (ditto). What would you cite as a specific example of an alleged not-so-obvious early-80s mainstream ironic pop culture setup? I have real trouble understanding that decade as having been essentially and broadly ironic in approach, except on the cutting edge (tacky is not the same thing). The 90s, not so, of course.
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And I guess in "urban" terms, the massive Steve Wynn-ing of Vegas was mainly a 90s+ thing, too.

Though I suspect you're setting the bar a little *too* mainstream--and *harrumph* ironically *harrumph* enough, the more "PoMo-style ironic distanciation" went mainstream, the more it (inevitably?) lost its, er, PoMo-ness. (Thus viewed, David Lynch is more the end of something than the beginning.)

Ultimately, maybe, it still comes down to aesthetics--and there's a reason why plenty of people still equate "PoMo" with "80s" (maybe in the same way that "Modern" might popularly equate with "50s"). Yes, even tacky 80s, MTV 80s, Miami Vice 80s. *Especially* that 80s...
 
Brian Willams has gotta be the driest thing on tv. I cant stand him.

Altough I want to see Canada do well, CBC's too Canada-centric and broadcasts our medal hopefulls in lesser events. Im actually watching NBC for better international coverage.
 
"In your opinion, would those ceremonies therefore have been unique in recent Olympic history as having been intentionally tacky?"

These opening ceremonies were also intentionally tacky...I find it impossible to believe they weren't. I've never seen opening ceremonies that had less to do with sports or even simple, crowd-pleasing spectacle than these. From Susan Sarandon and Sophia Loren carrying in the flag, to the powdered wig-wearing revelers at the buffet (who wouldn't have looked out of place at the Piazza d'Italia) to Roberto Bolle's impression of a post-apocalyptic villain in a Japanese RPG, to the birth of Venus from a giant styrofoam clam, everything was uncomfortably cheesy. And the F1 donuts and Pavarotti were the tackiest parts.

20060210181309990007
 
^ The whole deal is further complicated by competing and inconsistent definitions of PoMo in art, architecture, sociology, etc.

"duelling posts, not knowing what the other person's written."

My fault, due to that ill-timed Italian Stallion edit.

"Perhaps the difference now is that it's *only* the rabble who deem it "just fine" anymore."

Ha! Nailed it. Well, I hope so, anyway.
 
I guess, back to the whole PoMo deal, the 80s embodied some fantasy PoMo utopia, and the 90s PoMo dystopia--sort of like the 50s = Modern utopia, and the 60s = Modern dystopia.

And the 1984 Olympics embodied that sweet PoMo optimism in the same way that, say, 1951's Festival of Britain embodied Modern optimism. Not that either was immune to criticism, even in their own time...
 
On the bright side, we did have Richie Hawtin in the ceremonies. Can't say anything particularly positive about the accompanying dance troupe however, Futurism nothwithstanding.

scarberian:

Roberto Bolle's impression of a post-apocalyptic villain in a Japanese RPG
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:rollin

AoD
 
I don't give a flying fig about the Olympics. I've been missing my Coronation Street, dammit!

Will Shelley finally see the light and dump Charlie?
Will Danny and Leanne's affair blow up in their faces?
Will Jack return to Vera?
Will Sal finally find a job?

These are the pressing questions of the day!
 
On the bright side, we did have Richie Hawtin in the ceremonies. Can't say anything particularly positive about the accompanying dance troupe however, Futurism nothwithstanding.
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Indeed, the only bright spot in a completely over-the-top (and not in a good way) ceremony.

Will Shelley finally see the light and dump Charlie?
Will Danny and Leanne's affair blow up in their faces?
Will Jack return to Vera?
Will Sal finally find a job?
Click to expand...
If you really can't wait another week, there's always:

www.itv.com/page.asp?partid=105
 
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