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Alto - High Speed Rail (Toronto-Quebec City)

marcochitti.substack.com

Why I’m still skeptical about ALTO’s HSR project

A reality check and a plea for transparency.
marcochitti.substack.com marcochitti.substack.com

Marco Chitti offers his skepticism towards the Canadian governments goal of having shovels in the ground by 2030. This is because of the lack of planning and public engagement steps that have been done in other countries that have developed HSR. Building lasting consensus can be difficult but, it must occur openly. The project management process can't be as secretive as managing a remote pipeline.

"I’m not sure they fully understand the complexity of what they’re undertaking or how challenging it will be to build a coalition capable of ensuring the project’s longevity beyond a single legislative term. Hopefully, they realize that transparency, rather than polished messaging, is more effective for building that coalition if they want Alto to be seen as a genuine, well-thought-out project ready for prime time rather than a mere corporate website with vague facts."
 
For those people who are curious to see what level of detail is available and discussed in public engagement forums for a HSR project in Germany which is currently scheduled to start construction in 2032 and open in 2037 (So very similar to ALTO Phase 1, which is scheduled to start construction in 2031 and start operations in 2039, but without piercing into any metropolitan cores):

IMG_0888.jpeg


IMG_0889.jpeg
 
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Urban Sky said:
For those people who are curious to see what level of detail is available and discussed in public engagement forums for a HSR project in Germany which is currently scheduled to start construction in 2032 and open in 2037 (So very similar to ALTO Phase 1, which is scheduled to start construction in 2031 and start operations in 2039, but without piercing into any metropolitan cores):
Click to expand...

Oh, good, you;re back................

I've been awaiting your thoughts on the budget allocation for Alto, as seen in my post, here:

Alto - High Speed Rail (Toronto-Quebec City)

https://www.conferenceboard.ca/insights/analysis-of-the-2025-federal-budget/?utm_source=Dynamics%20365%20Customer%20Insights%20-%20Journeys&utm_medium=email&utm_term=N%2FA&utm_campaign=newsletter_eqt_2025-11-05&utm_content=newsletter_eqt_federal%20budget%20announcement_2025-11-05#msdynmkt_trackin...
urbantoronto.ca urbantoronto.ca

That's a material sum for pre-construction; how does it align w/your expectations? Do you feel it is also imagine as engineering/property acquisition, or might some be otherwise allocated?
 
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It would be nice to see Alto HSR go down to Hamilton and Niagara one day, though that route has seemingly seldom been discussed over the past few decades. The distances between cities are smaller in the Hamilton-Niagara region than in southwestern Ontario, and the population density is relatively high. A lot of people along the proposed Toronto-Quebec City corridor would take the train to Niagara Falls for tourism. Many would use it for occasional trips to Toronto.

Plus, many people in Niagara Falls and Hamilton would probably take it to get to Ottawa, Montreal, and Quebec City. Hamilton would need the construction of a dedicated passenger rail corridor into the downtown core (likely with some tunnelling), as there is no such corridor at the moment. GO Transit could use the corridor as well with electrified service on the Lakeshore West line, which would be amazing.
 
junctionist said:
It would be nice to see Alto HSR go down to Hamilton and Niagara one day, though that route has seemingly seldom been discussed over the past few decades. The distances between cities are smaller in the Hamilton-Niagara region than in southwestern Ontario, and the population density is relatively high. A lot of people along the proposed Toronto-Quebec City corridor would take the train to Niagara Falls for tourism. Many would use it for occasional trips to Toronto.

Plus, many people in Niagara Falls and Hamilton would probably take it to get to Ottawa, Montreal, and Quebec City. Hamilton would need the construction of a dedicated passenger rail corridor into the downtown core (likely with some tunnelling), as there is no such corridor at the moment. GO Transit could use the corridor as well with electrified service on the Lakeshore West line, which would be amazing.
Click to expand...
Let's get Toronto-Montreal built first!
 
chrisw said:
marcochitti.substack.com

Why I’m still skeptical about ALTO’s HSR project

A reality check and a plea for transparency.
marcochitti.substack.com marcochitti.substack.com

Marco Chitti offers his skepticism towards the Canadian governments goal of having shovels in the ground by 2030. This is because of the lack of planning and public engagement steps that have been done in other countries that have developed HSR. Building lasting consensus can be difficult but, it must occur openly. The project management process can't be as secretive as managing a remote pipeline.

"I’m not sure they fully understand the complexity of what they’re undertaking or how challenging it will be to build a coalition capable of ensuring the project’s longevity beyond a single legislative term. Hopefully, they realize that transparency, rather than polished messaging, is more effective for building that coalition if they want Alto to be seen as a genuine, well-thought-out project ready for prime time rather than a mere corporate website with vague facts."
Click to expand...

Toronto City Council approved a confidentiality agreement with ALTO yesterday, somehow including it in an executive committee motion concerning Metrolinx projects.

EX27.4 - St. Clair-Old Weston Station and 2025 GO Expansion Program UpdatesEX27.4 - St. Clair-Old Weston Station and 2025 GO Expansion Program Updates​

6. City Council authorize the Deputy City Manager, Infrastructure Services, or designate, to negotiate, enter into and execute a confidentiality agreement with VIA HFR - VIA TGF Inc., operating as Alto, for the Toronto-Quebec City High-Speed Rail Network project on such terms and conditions satisfactory to the Deputy City Manager, Infrastructure Services, and in a form satisfactory to the City Solicitor.

image.png
 
junctionist said:
It would be nice to see Alto HSR go down to Hamilton and Niagara one day, though that route has seemingly seldom been discussed over the past few decades. The distances between cities are smaller in the Hamilton-Niagara region than in southwestern Ontario, and the population density is relatively high. A lot of people along the proposed Toronto-Quebec City corridor would take the train to Niagara Falls for tourism. Many would use it for occasional trips to Toronto.

Plus, many people in Niagara Falls and Hamilton would probably take it to get to Ottawa, Montreal, and Quebec City. Hamilton would need the construction of a dedicated passenger rail corridor into the downtown core (likely with some tunnelling), as there is no such corridor at the moment. GO Transit could use the corridor as well with electrified service on the Lakeshore West line, which would be amazing.
Click to expand...
Yes Niagara Falls is a big tourist draw and there should be high speed rail or even higher speed rail to there from Union. A lot of people who come to Toronto want to visit Niagara Falls. Someone should arrive at Pearson and use be able to get to Niagara Falls using trains which are frequent and high speed or higher speed. That should be the goal.

In Venice you have the Santa Lucia train station on the island which has high speed rain service and regular train services to places in an Italy and Europe. We should strive to that level for Niagara.

Also weren’t the PC Party talking about an airport in Niagara Falls area ? Why don’t the invest that money into improving rail access to the falls from Toronto and Pearson airport ?
 
innsertnamehere said:
Let's get Toronto-Montreal built first!
Click to expand...

I would go even smaller. Ottawa-Montreal is the easiest stretch they could do. That will be the first test.

As it stands, Toronto-Quebec City is not scheduled to be done till 2040. Going West of Union is even more complicated. Wondering about what we'll build in the 2040s when we don't even have a shovel in the ground now, is a bit nuts.
 
kEiThZ said:
I would go even smaller. Ottawa-Montreal is the easiest stretch they could do. That will be the first test.

As it stands, Toronto-Quebec City is not scheduled to be done till 2040. Going West of Union is even more complicated. Wondering about what we'll build in the 2040s when we don't even have a shovel in the ground now, is a bit nuts.
Click to expand...
Build Ottawa - Gatineau first
 
kEiThZ said:
I would go even smaller. Ottawa-Montreal is the easiest stretch they could do. That will be the first test.

As it stands, Toronto-Quebec City is not scheduled to be done till 2040. Going West of Union is even more complicated. Wondering about what we'll build in the 2040s when we don't even have a shovel in the ground now, is a bit nuts.
Click to expand...

Hamilton could really use a new passenger rail corridor into the downtown core, though, even for GO Transit. Getting federal funding for it would help immensely.
 
Northern Light said:
Oh, good, you;re back................

I've been awaiting your thoughts on the budget allocation for Alto, as seen in my post, here:

Alto - High Speed Rail (Toronto-Quebec City)

https://www.conferenceboard.ca/insights/analysis-of-the-2025-federal-budget/?utm_source=Dynamics%20365%20Customer%20Insights%20-%20Journeys&utm_medium=email&utm_term=N%2FA&utm_campaign=newsletter_eqt_2025-11-05&utm_content=newsletter_eqt_federal%20budget%20announcement_2025-11-05#msdynmkt_trackin...
urbantoronto.ca urbantoronto.ca

That's a material sum for pre-construction; how does it align w/your expectations? Do you feel it is also imagine as engineering/property acquisition, or might some be otherwise allocated?
Click to expand...
I think it‘s highly unsusual to budget this kind of amounts before giving a formal go-ahead decision to a clearly defined project. As steep as our consultancy fees are, I don‘t see how you can possibly spend a billion Dollar in a single year without paying for actual physical assets (such as properties) and engineering works (such as any kind of construction activities).

The charitable view is that they have already a very precise idea of what they are going to do (and when and where) and that they have already consulted all relevant stakeholders, in which case the airtightness of these consultations would be staggering. The less charitable view is that the lack of details points at that they have nothing which would be remotely presentable at this point. You can imagine with which view I identify more…
 
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