Afghanistan debate (Hillier, new troops)

[kEiThZ]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...04.wAbdelrazik0305/BNStory/International/home

Is this the rule of law here you are talking about?


Tasers used by our RCMP that killed a man for his attack by a stapler- that never happened, guards assisting a suicide in a prison because the kid tried too many times to kill herself and the guards were following orders?

Is this post related to Afghanistan at all? Are we now going to allow anything and everything that's construed as the slightest bit wrong with western society to be used as proof of failure in Afghanistan?

I can't believe you believe our society is so cleansed of vile antisocial behaviour you claim to exists uniquely in Afghanistan which legitimizes our troops occupation there.

Did anybody here suggest that we are soooo pure that it gives us the right to clear up other countries? We are there because we have security interests. Plain and simple. Our government and several other would prefer for Afghanistan not to be Jihad central, which would inevitably lead to us losing a few office towers. I rather like the TD Centre, the CN Tower and the SkyDome the way they are right now. And I'd prefer all those Canadians who work there not have to wonder about a plane coming through the window. Or you know, I'd prefer that you not have to worry about bioterrorism the next time you run the faucet to get water for a drink. That's why we are there. Of course, that mission can only be achieved by stabilizing Afghanistan and helping the Afghan people, so we'll help them do that.

 

[kEiThZ]

The Taliban is using the JesusPhone, what more can you possibly want? Apple Products are right up there on the lists of yuppie-fication, I predict that gastro-bars and organic microbreweries will soon follow.

It was an Afghan using the Jesusphone.....

But the Taliban do use Google Maps for targeting and adjusting fire.....

 

[jade_lee]

It was an Afghan using the Jesusphone.....

But the Taliban do use Google Maps for targeting and adjusting fire.....

I bet the average Taliban could not find Canada on a map.

 

[Brian69]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...04.wAbdelrazik0305/BNStory/International/home

Is this the rule of law here you are talking about?


Tasers used by our RCMP that killed a man for his attack by a stapler- that never happened, guards assisting a suicide in a prison because the kid tried too many times to kill herself and the guards were following orders?

It's time we clean up our own backyard before we even attempt to clean up the mess in countries we know little about it seems.

I can't believe you believe our society is so cleansed of vile antisocial behaviour you claim to exists uniquely in Afghanistan which legitimizes our troops occupation there.

Why don't you simply admit that your issue is with Canada and the Canadian military and has nothing to do with Afghanistan.

 

[jade_lee]

Why don't you simply admit that your issue is with Canada and the Canadian military and has nothing to do with Afghanistan.

I have an issue with my country Canada and with it's involvement in Afghanistan too.
Do you find what has happened to be acceptable and beyond comment?

 

[Brian69]

Oh, there's been lots of comment on it over the past 19 pages of this thread, the problem is you've managed to continually find new ways to avoid responding to what you've started and instead you leap off in new directions that have little to do with the subject at hand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring_(logical_fallacy)#Red_herring

How do we stop terrorism in the region from being exported without intervention? How do we guarantee safety for Afghans and a way to rebuild the urban centres? How do the aid groups get anything done when the Taliban kill them without protection? And what does all of this have to do with the RCMP tazering innocent civilians at Vancouver airport?

War is never acceptable, but sometimes it is necessary.

 

[jade_lee]

All have a common theme, think before you act and don't try to cover your ass with lies and deception when you are caught doing exactly what you claim to not be doing. As for the stop the terrorist rhetoric, give it a rest. Every generation has it's own unique brand of terrorist, Solutions are found once the arms are laid down or great leaders are found.
The war is necessary argument is a wee bit thin on logic these days. Maybe it should be rephrased as "war is an industry that needs to be fed".
Keep on blindly trusting authorities and this bullshit will continue well beyond both our graves. What would I do? That is rather an after the fact question don't you think? What does keeping our troops in Afghanistan intend to accomplish other than feeding a war machine effort to save face?

 

[jade_lee]

I notice you don't touch on the extraordinary rendition practices of our very own spy agency. We don't appear to be what we are preaching to our soldiers and the wife telling us to continue the mission because her poor children have sacrificed their father to it is rather rich. It was his individual choice to be there and it's my
choice to not respect our governments involvement there.

 

[Tewder]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...04.wAbdelrazik0305/BNStory/International/home

Is this the rule of law here you are talking about?


Tasers used by our RCMP that killed a man for his attack by a stapler- that never happened, guards assisting a suicide in a prison because the kid tried too many times to kill herself and the guards were following orders?

It's time we clean up our own backyard before we even attempt to clean up the mess in countries we know little about it seems.

I can't believe you believe our society is so cleansed of vile antisocial behaviour you claim to exists uniquely in Afghanistan which legitimizes our troops occupation there.

Clearly you need to learn to read for content... I never said our system was pure. In fact I think I called it 'dirty' and 'flawed'. I'm sure you would agree with that though, yes? Still if Aghanistan under the Taliban seems so clearly superior to our system and so preferable to you I'm sure you will be welcomed with open arms there once the West pulls out. So when are you leaving?

 

[jade_lee]

Clearly you need to learn to read for content... I never said our system was pure. In fact I think I called it 'dirty' and 'flawed'. I'm sure you would agree with that though, yes? Still if Aghanistan under the Taliban seems so clearly superior to our system and so preferable to you I'm sure you will be welcomed with open arms there once the West pulls out. So when are you leaving?

Point our where I have said this.

That's right, you can't. "if you are not with us you are against us" is pure Bush rhetoric that I never bought into.

 

[jade_lee]

" Insurgents with home field advantage, cash flow and safe havens may be controlled militarily or accommodated politically; they are rarely beaten. That hard truth is relatively new to Ottawa soft talk.

Liberals, as Janice Gross Stein and Eugene Lang write in their book, The Unexpected War, knew little about Afghanistan before sending troops to Kabul and then Kandahar. Conservatives raised the conflict to a blind test of patriotism while for the first time setting the success bar to the impossible height of "finishing the job."

Harper has now absorbed and is applying Afghanistan's history lesson. It's congenitally violent, located in a notorious neighbourhood and addicted to opium. It's corrupt, controlled by warlords and at least decades away from the model Asian democracy of Western fantasy.

Successive governments should have known all that before committing to missions of escalating difficult and danger. They should have come clean about the cost, now $20 billion and the lives of 111 soldiers, two aid workers and a diplomat. Most of all, they owed it to us to be honest about the purpose."

The Toronto Star writes today.

I agree.

 

[Brian69]

You also agreed with Francesc Vendrell before it was pointed out to you that he actually supported an increase in NATO troop levels. Then you dropped him like a hot potato.

 

[kEiThZ]

Point our where I have said this.

You have repeatedly pointed out that we should not take on the Taliban. Ergo, you feel that the Taliban are good enough to rule over the Afghans. And by default they are also your preferred solution to the problem at hand. So is Brian wrong in assuming that you see no flaw in the Taliban? You have certainly not offered any alternative to the Taliban. And if you don't see anything wrong with the Taliban then why should you have any problem living under them?

Indeed, you seem to have a problem with our military, our national police force, our banks, our government, our politicians, our whole system of societal organization and basic philosophy (capitalism), etc. In many threads I have seen you complain and not offer alternatives, but I have yet to see you make a single positive comment about Canada. Not one. Perhaps you might actually prefer life under the Taliban if you find everything Canadian so intolerable.

 

[jade_lee]

You also agreed with Francesc Vendrell before it was pointed out to you that he actually supported an increase in NATO troop levels. Then you dropped him like a hot potato.

Wrong, I agreed with something he had said.

By your default reasoning strategy, not mine. In response to Keithz.
I am critical of many things here in Canada but I am Canadian and will remain Canadian and your suggestion to sacrifice my citizenship and go join the Taliban is obnoxious at best.

 

[Brian69]

Wrong, I agreed with something he had said.

By your default reasoning strategy, not mine.

Default reasoning strategy? Wot's that? Sounds vaguely Machiavellian.

My only reasoning strategy is to get you to follow up on all of these one shot posts you make. Y'know, do the thread in a back 'n forth discussy/debatey sort of way rather than coming off all high and monologue-like. Maybe keep it on topic too. Your posts continually invite a response but you seem allergic to sticking to a linear debate.