50 Alma Avenue, 15 Florence Street (?,?,?)

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One of the last big sites in the core coming to market:

Land For Sale — 50 Alma Avenue Toronto, Ontario M6K 3L8 | Canada | Colliers

50 Alma Avenue, (together with 15 Florence Street, “the Property”), presents a remarkable opportunity to develop 5.74 acres of land in downtown Toronto. Situated at the intersection of Que

www.collierscanada.com

 

[innsertnamehere]

Wouldn't this still be an employment conversion or did the current owner get that part done in the background?

Regardless, I'm surprised it's taken this long to come to market.

 

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Wouldn't this still be an employment conversion or did the current owner get that part done in the background?

Regardless, I'm surprised it's taken this long to come to market.

I believe it is, but OPA 231 is (unfortunately) on its last legs as is. Tory was angling to get it out before he was turfed, but I don't have any sense of how Chow's office is handling it going forward so I'm not sure the current status. It is Employment though, so we'll have to see how things move forward when someone acquires it:

 

[Northern Light]

One of the last big sites in the core coming to market:

View attachment 538538

Land For Sale — 50 Alma Avenue Toronto, Ontario M6K 3L8 | Canada | Colliers

50 Alma Avenue, (together with 15 Florence Street, “the Property”), presents a remarkable opportunity to develop 5.74 acres of land in downtown Toronto. Situated at the intersection of Que

www.collierscanada.com

Curious development concept in the ad:

To my mind, this lot could be so much more if it were part of a larger assembly including these adjacent properties on Dufferin and 7-11 Florence.

Then would suggest targeting 2 buyers, not one.

A developer and the City.

Aerial of my proposed site area:

You can see from this perspective that the area comes up short on parkland.

Such a challenging site, I could try to shift the development to the north end of the site, or an even larger assembly featuring the properties near Florence/Brock, and site the new park on all the land from Alma to the south.

Any portion of the land above the developer obligation would be bought by the City at market value. That's about 1/2 of the enlarged property, or about 3.4 acres.

Why? First, it gives the City a single, consolidated park of size with which it can do something. Second, it puts the park at the south and west of the site, maximizing sunlight. Third, minimizes Nimby from the existing condos on Dufferin who get a park view instead of the current lot or towers. Finally, it inflates the per ft2 value of the remaining site, where all south and west facing views will now be of a park.

Just a thought.

 

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Remember Hullmark owns 450 Dufferin and has separate plans for it: https://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/450-dufferin.50626

 

[rdaner]

I have been waiting for this! The sales video indicates that it can accommodate 7 towers with 2200 units but I don't know if this is approved or marketing. There is also an office component that I imagine is suggested. This site has a lengthy border with the West Toronto Railpath which is interesting. Centrecourt and Hullmark are about to have a throwdown! lol

 

[Northern Light]

I have been waiting for this! The sales video indicates that it can accommodate 5 towers with 2200 units but I don't know if this is approved or marketing.

The posts above indicate to you that this is marketing. Its a concept, nothing more. (also, the sales concept says 7 tower)

There is also an office component that I imagine is suggested. This site has a lengthy border with the West Toronto Railpath which is interesting.

Why do you imagine an office component?

Centrecourt and Hullmark are about to have a throwdown! lol

They are? Why?

 

[innsertnamehere]

I believe it is, but OPA 231 is (unfortunately) on its last legs as is. Tory was angling to get it out before he was turfed, but I don't have any sense of how Chow's office is handling it going forward so I'm not sure the current status. It is Employment though, so we'll have to see how things move forward when someone acquires it:

View attachment 538547

The latest consolidation of the OP shows it as core employment areas as well.

The OP is consolidated with the conversions made through OPA 591 in December as well (450 Dufferin was on that list) - so unless the existing landowners have an existing appeal through OPA 231 still somehow, the new landowner is either waiting for the new PPS to come through on enabling employment conversions without an MCR or is going to be sitting on this property for a while for a chance to apply for a conversion.

On an off-topic note - how in the world did that townhouse block to the north get built? There must be some kind of SASP for it permitting residential in an employment area.

 

[rdaner]

The posts above indicate to you that this is marketing. Its a concept, nothing more. (also, the sales concept says 7 tower)



Why do you imagine an office component?



They are? Why?

The suggested office component in the sales video is small (150,000sf) and easily ignored. I mentioned CentreCourt and Hullmark as they are very active along lower Dufferin and at least Hullmark seems to have interesting built-form ideas. To this list I will add Lifetime who is taking over the Dufferin and King intersection. In addition this site would be ideal for some sort of post-secondary component. Imagine a space for the musical theatre programs at Sheridan and Humber?

Next on my watchlist is the grocery store behind the Gladstone Hotel.

 

[Northern Light]

The suggested office component in the sales video is small (150,000sf) and easily ignored.

Employment lands appeasement suggested by the sales team, ignoring that no one in their right mind would be building significant office space now, and if you did add some, it would likely be a heritage industrial conversion that offered high ceilings and architectural appeal for an artsy/media client. Yah, I don't see it, if someone gets conversion here.

I mentioned CentreCourt and Hullmark as they are very active along lower Dufferin and at least Hullmark seems to have interesting built-form ideas. To this list I will add Lifetime who is taking over the Dufferin and King intersection.

Lifetime, based on their failures of both vision and quality control should not be allowed to build anything anywhere, perish the thought.

In addition this site would be ideal for some sort of post-secondary component. Imagine a space for the musical theatre programs at Sheridan and Humber?

I don't see it. Sheridan is not coming into the City, I don't see Humber adding another campus, they have ample room to build out on their current landholdings.

The next post secondary campus in the City will likely be George Brown - Weston/Mt. Dennis.

Next on my watchlist is the grocery store behind the Gladstone Hotel.

I offered my thoughts on that site, here:

1181 Queen Street West | 54.45m | 15s | Skale | BDP Quadrangle

I have been there as well. I do wonder, however, who owns the land and how long before this large plot of land is developed. My partner and I had a discussion about how much FSI could go there and both agreed it would be very high especially with a change in zoning. Sorry! 🤔 I seem to recall...

urbantoronto.ca

 

[rdaner]

Employment lands appeasement suggested by the sales team, ignoring that no one in their right mind would be building significant office space now, and if you did add some, it would likely be a heritage industrial conversion that offered high ceilings and architectural appeal for an artsy/media client. Yah, I don't see it, if someone gets conversion here.



Lifetime, based on their failures of both vision and quality control should not be allowed to build anything anywhere, perish the thought.



I don't see it. Sheridan is not coming into the City, I don't see Humber adding another campus, they have ample room to build out on their current landholdings.

The next post secondary campus in the City will likely be George Brown - Weston/Mt. Dennis.



I offered my thoughts on that site, here:

1181 Queen Street West | 54.45m | 15s | Skale | BDP Quadrangle

I have been there as well. I do wonder, however, who owns the land and how long before this large plot of land is developed. My partner and I had a discussion about how much FSI could go there and both agreed it would be very high especially with a change in zoning. Sorry! 🤔 I seem to recall...

urbantoronto.ca

We could all be surprised and discover that Westbank gets it! lol

And now that this is in play the grocery store lot is now the largest plot of land on West Queen West and the zoning for the sfh areas to the north has recently changed towards the more intense so there may be increased flexibility on what can be built.

As far as post secondary uses I have no real knowledge of how these things work but I do sense that there is a lot more flexibility emerging in arrangements. For example there is the partnership between Centennial and Pinewood that snuck a few rooms into a working film studio. Then there are a number of lesser known operations that could expand such as Randolf and the Institute Without Boundaries. A number of cities encourage satellite campuses of foreign universities such as Budapest and Chicago that might work well in Toronto. And let's not forget that McGill may be looking to slowly get a few eggs out of the Quebec basket and might be receptive to a few incentives.

 

[mrxbombastic]

Believe it's part of the SASP 154 which permits residential in some employment lands, and in the recent OPA 653 it's being converted to Neighbourhoods to reflect the existing townhouses use.

The latest consolidation of the OP shows it as core employment areas as well.

View attachment 538553

The OP is consolidated with the conversions made through OPA 591 in December as well (450 Dufferin was on that list) - so unless the existing landowners have an existing appeal through OPA 231 still somehow, the new landowner is either waiting for the new PPS to come through on enabling employment conversions without an MCR or is going to be sitting on this property for a while for a chance to apply for a conversion.

On an off-topic note - how in the world did that townhouse block to the north get built? There must be some kind of SASP for it permitting residential in an employment area.

 

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