407 Rail Freight Bypass/The Missing Link

[crs1026]

The 407 BRT will handle cross-region demand for a couple of decades, the GO thing is a bit like the subway deck on the Prince Edward viaduct....long term planning.

I do believe however that we aren't giving enough emphasis to some sort of east-west regional line that keeps people out of central Toronto altogether. I mean, if the 401 is full, and the 407 is healthy, the demand must be there. Waaay back when Ontario was first promoting ITCS, there was a proposal for a transit line in the Hydro corridor across Finch, all the way from Pickering to Oakville.

As noted, the air connection is likely to happen first. If the GTAA is successful in making Toronto a premier international hub, true HSR may be a preferable solution to connections to lots of places, as opposed to connecting flights from Pearson.

It may be a bit soon to plan, but it's prudent to leave space for it.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

A friend of mine was at the press conference in Brampton where the transit funding for Brampton was announced (see the Brampton Transit/Züm thread for details). He asked this question to Minister Del Duca:

"Any further updates available on the agreement with CN Rail to build a bypass between Bramalea and Milton to allow for more GO service on the Kitchener Line?" The reply was "there will be further updates very soon - a few weeks".

 

[Allandale25]

Complete quote from Del Duca in this posting - both transcribed and the video. (Also, you can hear the OBRY train whistling in the background as it crosses Sandlewood Parkway).

 

[steveintoronto]

Complete quote from Del Duca in this posting - both transcribed and the video. (Also, you can hear the OBRY train whistling in the background as it crosses Sandlewood Parkway).

Got to wonder on the "Minister of Everything" reference a few times in that publication. It is, of course, the Min of Innovation, and the reference to "everything" may be a transcription error, but hilarious none-the-less.

*If* CN and Metrolinx do go ahead with the Limited Link, one has to wonder: "Are they going to build infrastructure to satisfy 'widened lanes' (as the London Metropolitan quadruple lines were referred to) for when CP is given no option under the Relocation Act but to use the By-Pass?" Four won't be necessary, two will do for CP + CN traffic volume if signalled and the most modern controls are used, but the extra two tracks wouldn't be redundant, they could be passenger ones later.

Very good heads up Allandale. And the soulful horn in the background was almost nostalgic, which is really what OBRY is mostly about anyway (although they have their head above water).

 

[Allandale25]

Got to wonder on the "Minister of Everything" reference a few times in that publication. It is, of course, the Min of Innovation, and the reference to "everything" may be a transcription error, but hilarious none-the-less.

*If* CN and Metrolinx do go ahead with the Limited Link, one has to wonder: "Are they going to build infrastructure to satisfy 'widened lanes' (as the London Metropolitan quadruple lines were referred to) for when CP is given no option under the Relocation Act but to use the By-Pass?" Four won't be necessary, two will do for CP + CN traffic volume if signalled and the most modern controls are used, but the extra two tracks wouldn't be redundant, they could be passenger ones later.

Very good heads up Allandale. And the soulful horn in the background was almost nostalgic, which is really what OBRY is mostly about anyway (although they have their head above water).

I think if you go back further in the thread, you'll see there was a public meeting in the fall of 2016 for RER in Brampton. It was part of the series of RER meetings they held across the region. One of the GO staff members did indeed say they are looking to including enough space for future potential needs and not just for CN's purposes. It's a complex engineering situation because of the number of grade separations, the proximity to the 407, hydro towers, and private properties. Hopefully there will be more news soon (IE EA kick off, RFP for consultants, a further agreement singing).

 

[TOareaFan]

Got to wonder on the "Minister of Everything" reference a few times in that publication. It is, of course, the Min of Innovation, and the reference to "everything" may be a transcription error, but hilarious none-the-less.

it is not an error....it is a joking nickname that I first saw about a year ago and have heard it a few times....I think it is from the fact that his full title is The Minister of Innovation, Science, and Economic Development ....and someone described that portfolio as "everything".

 

[steveintoronto]

It goes back considerably further than that, it's just the first time I've heard it used for Bains:

A Minister of Everything, sometimes also called Minister for Everything, refers to a Minister who wields great and wide-reaching power in the government, usually as the head of a powerful and influential ministry (often a "super ministry" combining two or more portfolios), but also can influence government machinery outside his direct control. The title is unofficial, and often assigned by the media or other political figures. Ministers who are seen as holding the title are often regarded as the second most powerful person in the government after the head of government, and often (but not always) this position is cemented by holding the official title of Deputy Prime Minister/Deputy Premier/Deputy First Minister etc. The term can also be used as a criticism of heads of government who take a more hands on approach in governing and give ministers less independence,[1] or a head of government who hold additional powerful cabinet portfolios.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_of_Everything

Bains is called that only due to the mish-mash of leftover ministries, not his power or importance as is usually associated with the term.

 

[Allandale25]

No updates about the bypass in the latest Metrolinx Board agenda.

Only references to the Kitchener line and electrification in general:

Kitchener Corridor
The RFQ for the design-build-finance construction of a new second track under Highway 401 closed in November 2016. Three consortia were qualified and will participate in the RFP, which was released in February 2017. The new tunnel will allow for both UP Express and future GO service increases to move under the highway without the requirement to reduce speeds through this section of the corridor.

Electrification
The project team continues to work with utility companies to validate their infrastructure requirements within the Metrolinx right of way, as well as their requirements to ensure mitigation to future electrification is in the final stages. It is anticipated that by Summer 2017 the electrification team will better understand the risks, develop a mitigation strategy and finalize costs related to utilities impacted by the Electrification program.

The reference concept designs for the Electrification program will be complete by Summer 2017. As part of the Electrification Environmental Approval, the Environmental Project Report is ready to be sent to the agencies for their cursory review, prior to Notice of Commencement. The EA will be completed by early Fall 2017.

 

[Allandale25]

Posted this in GO Construction but thought it would make a little more sense here.

The Kitchener Centre MP commented on the federal investment for the Kitchener Line:

"Saini noted new track will be built to help separate freight and commuter train traffic, in order to speed up passenger travel. He said the work is needed along the whole line as Metrolinx moves toward electrification."

Full interview here. Interesting use of the word "separated". I'm just posting the interview. Not speculating or commenting on it at this point.

 

[steveintoronto]

Posted this in GO Construction but thought it would make a little more sense here.

The Kitchener Centre MP commented on the federal investment for the Kitchener Line:

"Saini noted new track will be built to help separate freight and commuter train traffic, in order to speed up passenger travel. He said the work is needed along the whole line as Metrolinx moves toward electrification."

Full interview here. Interesting use of the word "separated". I'm just posting the interview. Not speculating or commenting on it at this point.

Many thanks for that, will listen, albeit I question his sense of context, will clarify after listening.

Edit: Quick note, the headline in itself gives pause:
2-way, all-day GO still 10 years off, despite boost from feds

2nd Edit to Add: Interviewer asked all the pertinent questions he could without pushing it too far. I'm surprised at the answer being "Mount Pleasant" and not "Bramalea".

I see problems...or the story isn't fully correct.

 

[Allandale25]

A recent report from the City of Mississauga reviewed all transit projects in the City. The Missing Link was referenced and a new (high level conceptual) map was produced).

Here's what it said:

Regional Express Rail – Milton GO Corridor/ The Missing Link Metrolinx is also recommending RER for the Milton GO corridor, however, at a lower level of service. Through RER, the Milton GO line (Mississauga GO stations – Lisgar, Meadowvale, Streetsville, Erindale, Cooksville and Dixie) will see a minor change to existing peak period oneway service from 30 minutes to 15 minutes or better on weekdays. Achieving full RER on the Milton GO line is constrained by the fact that Canadian Pacific Railway (CP) owns the line and uses it for heavy freight movements.

In 2015, the City of Mississauga, together with Toronto, Milton and Cambridge, funded a study to explore ways to improve service on the Milton and Kitchener GO lines without widening corridors as this would have significant financial and land impacts. The study suggested that heavy rail freight traffic should be relocated from the Milton and Kitchener GO lines to a proposed bypass rail line adjacent to Highway 407 (termed the “Missing Link”). The Missing Link proposal would free up capacity on the Milton and Kitchener GO Rail lines to provide substantial improved GO service throughout the Western GTA and Waterloo Region.

The Milton and Kitchener GO Rail lines are key local and regional rapid transit corridors that, with increased two-way all-day service, will help respond to growing traffic congestion, meet demand for inter-regional transit service and support economic development. The Missing Link proposal is important from both a Regional and local perspective.

Maps:

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

So from what it looks like there's going to be an issue with CP signing up for this?

 

[Allandale25]

So from what it looks like there's going to be an issue with CP signing up for this?

All the information I have through conversations is that CP is resistant. Others may have heard different information. So, time will tell if they decide to join. Going by memory, I think steveintoronto feels CP will come to the table as part of a larger deal that'd include federal money. Apologies if I'm misremembering his view.

 

[steveintoronto]

All the information I have through conversations is that CP is resistant. Others may have heard different information. So, time will tell if they decide to join. Going by memory, I think steveintoronto feels CP will come to the table as part of a larger deal that'd include federal money. Apologies if I'm misremembering his view.

You got that exactly right. If there's an inertia to do The Link, CP will be made 'an offer they can't refuse', either by carrot, stick, or both. There are precedents for this, Ottawa being a case in point, albeit not on this scale.

What I noted from the report is this: (Had to take pic, as I lack a full Adobe Reader, and formatting is always a mess when doing copy and paste)

They're referring to the full and CP inclusive Link, as well they should. The maps make that abundantly clear, albeit they are pictorial maps, not for reference.

So no new news, but that report is enough to keep hopes high on this. It may yet be half a year or so until a proposal, a serious one, to do the Link is made. I just pray, on the surmise the Link has to happen, that work doesn't begin on corridors that becomes redundant after a Link is built. The saving grace there is Metrolinx talk a lot, and very little happens.

Now, getting back to "Electrification...." Nice theory.

Good heads-up, Allandale.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

All the information I have through conversations is that CP is resistant. Others may have heard different information. So, time will tell if they decide to join. Going by memory, I think steveintoronto feels CP will come to the table as part of a larger deal that'd include federal money. Apologies if I'm misremembering his view.

I mentioned it a while back, but I had heard when it was first floated, CP was on board and CN was resistant based on the thinking that CP would continue on the Halton and York subs. As the scope has changed and further discussions have occurred (including the Agreement-in-Principle with CN), that may have changed, but I couldn't speak to it.