2018 Provincial Election Transit Promises

[44 North]

Why did they specify two-way, all-day GO service and not RER?

This was one of the first things that stood out for me. My guess is twofold: maybe they feel "RER" is sort of a Liberal-attributed branding that they want to do away with. But for awhile now I've been of the opinion that the 2013 RER grand plan promise is too big too soon. Logically it won't completed, and/or the funds would be better spent on genuine GO rail expansion. And notice the platform didn't mention electrification? They'll soon have to clarify their stance on this.

The Sheppard thing is interesting. I don't really support it, but at least they've come out and said what they want to do. Even linking to a Ben Spurr article about the corridor's glaring question marks. And naturally extending Line 4 east is more important than west, which somehow made its way into the new Big Move.

 

[Cobra]

They finally understood that infrastructure investment is beyond ideology. Lots of government way more right wing then them have built and overseen massive transit expansion

They are right on 1 thing. 5 years on design and going through the proper channels before building a subway is beyond unnaceptable

Need more reading before adding more comments

 

[Sandpit]

A couple thoughts:

1) Pro-transit is actually the pro-business position now. Look at that Board of Trade report on congestion.
2) The PCs might be expecting a minority and might have tailored their platform in response.
3) A lot of their candidates are former Conservative MPs that were defeated in 2015, and that probably says something. Certainly something I would bring up if I were the OLP.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

They are right on 1 thing. 5 years on design and going through the proper channels before building a subway is beyond unnaceptable

Hold on. Are we looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist? Is the slow crawl from proposal to construction due to bureaucracy, or is it due to lack of political will to build these projects?

For example, the Crosstown LRT, which had more than its fair share of political interference, took just four years from initial proposal (April 2007) to construction start (July 2011). This is a project that is easily the most complicated transit infrastructure under construction in the GTHA. Of course, China would do it faster, but this is a breakneck speed for Ontario. On the other hand, we have the Finch West LRT, proposed in April 2007, and won't be starting construction until 2018, due to lack of political will to build it.

From what I understand, the TPAP process has been shortened to just six months. The bureaucracy (at least at the provincial level) has already been shortened substantially. Yet, project such as the DRL are still taking a decade or more to enter construction. Why is this?

 

[Hopkins123]

They finally understood that infrastructure investment is beyond ideology. Lots of government way more right wing then them have built and overseen massive transit expansion

They are right on 1 thing. 5 years on design and going through the proper channels before building a subway is beyond unnaceptable

Need more reading before adding more comments

Indeed. The current government's process of funding, planning and building grade-separated rapid transit is not only taking far too long; it's leaving the projects vulnerable to new administration's to come in and change plans, unfund and cancel projects.

We need to emulate other jurisdictions where subways can start and even be completed within a single electoral cycle (Vancouver's Canada Line comes to mind). How the Liberals have allowed these things to drag on and on all the while ballooning costs, is precisely why the Tories now have a decent shot at defeating them next year.

 

[TransitBart]

Hold on. Are we looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist? Is the slow crawl from proposal to construction due to bureaucracy, or is it due to lack of political will to build these projects?

For example, the Crosstown LRT, which had more than its fair share of political interference, took just four years from initial proposal (April 2007) to construction start (July 2011). This is a project that is easily the most complicated transit infrastructure under construction in the GTHA. Of course, China would do it faster, but this is a breakneck speed for Ontario. On the other hand, we have the Finch West LRT, proposed in April 2011, and won't be starting construction until 2018, due to lack of political will to build it.

From what I understand, the TPAP process has been shortened to just six months. The bureaucracy (at least at the provincial level) has already been shortened substantially. Yet, project such as the DRL are still taking a decade or more to enter construction. Why is this?

1. Make clear decision.
2. Fund.
3. Design. Measure twice. Cut once.
4. Build.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Indeed. The current government's process of funding, planning and building grade-separated rapid transit is not only taking far too long; it's leaving the projects vulnerable to new administration's to come in and change plans, unfund and cancel projects.

We need to emulate other jurisdictions where subways can start and even be completed within a single electoral cycle (Vancouver's Canada Line comes to mind). How the Liberals have allowed these things to drag on and on all the while ballooning costs, is precisely why the Tories now have a decent shot at defeating them next year.

How long did Canada Line take to start construction?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Hold on. Are we looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist? Is the slow crawl from proposal to construction due to bureaucracy, or is it due to lack of political will to build these projects?

For example, the Crosstown LRT, which had more than its fair share of political interference, took just four years from initial proposal (April 2007) to construction start (July 2011). This is a project that is easily the most complicated transit infrastructure under construction in the GTHA. Of course, China would do it faster, but this is a breakneck speed for Ontario. On the other hand, we have the Finch West LRT, proposed in April 2011, and won't be starting construction until 2018, due to lack of political will to build it.

From what I understand, the TPAP process has been shortened to just six months. The bureaucracy (at least at the provincial level) has already been shortened substantially. Yet, project such as the DRL are still taking a decade or more to enter construction. Why is this?

1. Make clear decision.
2. Fund.
3. Design. Measure twice. Cut once.
4. Build.

Regarding "mesure twice, cut once", I'm of the opinion that we're spending far too much time on the measuring. For example, the DRL tunnel design is beginning soon, yet it won't be under construction until at least 2025. This is ridiculous. If the tunnel design is complete, then the tunnelling should being immediately, so the project won't be subject to cancelations in a change of government.

 

[Hopkins123]

How long did Canada Line take to start construction?

It was first approved in December 2004 and open and operational by August 2009. So less than five years to be funded and constructed, even complete with a bridge crossing the ocean.

 

[TransitBart]

Regarding "mesure twice, cut once", I'm of the opinion that we're spending far too much time on the measuring. For example, the DRL tunnel design is beginning soon, yet it won't be under construction until at least 2025. This is ridiculous. If the tunnel design is complete, then the tunnelling should being immediately, so the project won't be subject to cancelations in a change of government.

I think the platform you are seeing is an indication that the present Liberal government has misjudged how dissatisfied most of us are with this timetable.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It was first approved in December 2004 and open and operational by August 2009. So less than five years to be funded and constructed, even complete with a bridge crossing the ocean.

There were some questionable design decisions with the Canada Line. Particularly around station capacity. I'm not sure if that was because of the expedited timeline, but it's something to keep in line if we want to emulate that here in the GTHA. Nevertheless, that is very impressive, and I'd like to read up on how exactly they achieved that.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I think the platform you are seeing is an indication that the present Liberal government has misjudged how dissatisfied my most of us are with this timetable.

And it's not just the provincial government at fault too. The City started the Downtown Rapid Transit Expansion Study (which kickstarted the DRL) all the way back in 2013. Lack of leadership at the municipal level has made progress very slow.

 

[LNahid2000]

It was first approved in December 2004 and open and operational by August 2009. So less than five years to be funded and constructed, even complete with a bridge crossing the ocean.

Using a combination of methods to build the line (cut and cover, tunnel bored, and elevated) depending on the environment rather than just tunnel boring through fields in the middle of nowhere probably helped to speed up construction.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Will Patrick Brown admit that Mike Harris made a BIG mistake cancelling subway projects and cutting the provincial transit subsidies?

 

[TransitBart]

Will Patrick Brown admit that Mike Harris made a BIG mistake cancelling subway projects and cutting the provincial transit subsidies?

Publishing this platform is admitting that. They have been sent to the woodshed for fifteen years. That being said, a lot has changed in fifteen years as well.