2015 Federal Election

[Skeezix]

Why is this a debate? My Muslim friends say the niqab isn't even part of Islam. They wear one by choice.

Because some try to claim it is part of Islam, and it should have protections as if it were.

Wow. It seems that we have a lot of Islamic scholars in Canada who are so knowledgeable that they call tell people whether or not their religious beliefs are accurate or not. In a free country, we somehow have (overwhelmingly Christian and male) people thinking it's okay to tell women what their religion/culture/personal beliefs properly consist of. I thought we were done with this nonsense in the 1980s when non-Sikhs were telling Sikh RCMP officers whether Sikhism required men to wear turbans or not.

All manner of Christian denominations and sects have beliefs which not only conflict with the beliefs of other Christians, yet also are arguably not in the Bible. Yet it would never occur to most people to suggest that Pentecostalism is wrong, and shouldn't be protected, because their Catholic friends have a different view of Christianity. The double standard here is just appalling.

As AoD notes above, it is well established law that the Charter protects sincerely held beliefs under the rubric of freedom of religion. In a free and democratic society like ours, what some white, Christian guy like me thinks about Islam should not be dictating what an Islamic woman chooses to practice and believe.

 

[Admiral Beez]

You guys are hilarious, Harper wants the public debate and discourse to focus on Islamophobia and for progressives to exhaust themselves on defending the niqab and/or religious accommodation and freedom, etc. What he doesn't want you to discuss is the economy, jobs, the environment, the collapse of our currency, the folly of dependence on the oil patch, etc. Look at this thread, it's essentially become about islamic dress codes.

 

[Skeezix]

You guys are hilarious, Harper wants the public debate and discourse to focus on Islamophobia and for progressives to exhaust themselves on defending the niqab and/or religious accommodation and freedom, etc. What he doesn't want you to discuss is the economy, jobs, the environment, the collapse of our currency, the folly of dependence on the oil patch, etc. Look at this thread, it's essentially become about islamic dress codes.

Why would you assume that any of us are voting on the basis of the niqab? Have you actually read this thread or any of our previous comments? Maybe you can tell us what we are allowed to talk about so that we can avoid future patronizing criticism from you. Thanks.

 

[TOareaFan]

Why would you assume that any of us are voting on the basis of the niqab? Have you actually read this thread or any of our previous comments? Maybe you can tell us what we are allowed to talk about so that we can avoid future patronizing criticism from you. Thanks.

This is so true....I am voting conservative even though I am opposed to any silly niqab ban....I have every faith in our institutions and the supreme court will deal with this silly election distraction in the appropriate manner.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Why would you assume that any of us are voting on the basis of the niqab? Have you actually read this thread or any of our previous comments? Maybe you can tell us what we are allowed to talk about so that we can avoid future patronizing criticism from you. Thanks.

Easy there.... faux outrage and rhetorical questions aside, no one is assuming how you're going to vote and no patronizing is intended. I'm referring not only to this thread, but on how the national MSM is focusing on this one distraction, which IMO plays into the Con's favour. They're not the first party to use a emotionally charged wedge issue to distract from the important matters at hand.

I'm still undecided on my vote. I'm tired of the Con narrative and vision for Canada's role in the world and promoting the idea that we're always under threat from within and without and that only they can save us. But I'm not sure Trudeau has what it takes and Muclair represents essentially a regional party.

 

[Skeezix]

Trust me - there was nothing faux about my outrage. Your comment was patronizing. If it wasn't intended to be, then you ought to have approached it very differently. Thanks.

 

[travis3000]

New NANOS numbers released this morning have Liberals leading nationally with 34%. Conservatives at 31%. NANOS shows the Liberals leading Ontario by over 7 points, which is key! Nanos shows NDP leading Quebec by 3.5 points. Liberals are second, Bloq is third. It's a tie in BC.

Leger released a poll yesterday showing the Liberals leading nationally as well by four points (34 to 30). Leger has the Liberals leading Ontario by a significant margin.

Mainstreet Technologies also released a poll two hours ago showing the previous Conservative lead of 7 points shrinking to just a 1 point lead nationally. The Liberals have shot up over 5 points since their last poll. Mainstreet also has the Liberals surging in Ontario, now leading by 7 points
--

We now have a firm Liberal lead nationally in 4 out of the last 5 polls (Forum, Ekos, Nanos, and Leger). And Mainstreet is well on their way to producing similar results. All five companies show the Liberals leading Ontario comfortably.

It's still 10 days until the election so anything can happen. The polls next week will be crucial as they will have data from this coming Thanksgiving weekend.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

You guys are hilarious, Harper wants the public debate and discourse to focus on Islamophobia and for progressives to exhaust themselves on defending the niqab and/or religious accommodation and freedom, etc. What he doesn't want you to discuss is the economy, jobs, the environment, the collapse of our currency, the folly of dependence on the oil patch, etc. Look at this thread, it's essentially become about islamic dress codes.

Actually it isn't an outrage - it's just a statement of fact. I have made my decision a long time ago on the "other issues", such as assault on science, evidence-based decision making, ethical rot, ineffectual public procurement, abuse of power, etc. Niqab itself is a non-issue, but the notion of using it as a bait lowers the quality of our political discourse, and that type of behaviour certainly is something that should be addressed.

AoD

 

[Admiral Beez]

Trust me - there was nothing faux about my outrage. Your comment was patronizing. If it wasn't intended to be, then you ought to have approached it very differently. Thanks.

A well written clarification, but why dilute with a statement of gratitude? To be clear, I haven't offered you anything to thank me for. In fact I have obviously without any statement of regret annoyed or frustrated you. Don't thank me for it, but call me out on it, or just ignore me, we don't have to agree. Enough said, IMO.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Actually it isn't an outrage - it's just a statement of fact. I have made my decision a long time ago on the "other issues", such as assault on science, evidence-based decision making, ethical rot, ineffectual public procurement, abuse of power, etc. Niqab itself is a non-issue, but the notion of using it as a bait lowers the quality of our political discourse, and that type of behaviour certainly is something that should be addressed.

AoD

That's what I'm trying to convey. It's a non-issue being used to influence or misdirect political discourse from the main issues. As posted above by others, I'm glad it's not working, as UT as a group is seeing through the smoke.

 

[Skeezix]

A well written clarification, but why dilute with a statement of gratitude? To be clear, I haven't offered you anything to thank me for. In fact I have obviously without any statement of regret annoyed or frustrated you. Don't thank me for it, but call me out on it, or just ignore me, we don't have to agree. Enough said, IMO.

I was thanking you for your future efforts not to post additional patronizing posts. I am an optimist. You are correct that none of your behaviour in this thread today merits thanks.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I was thanking you for your future efforts not to post additional patronizing posts. I am an optimist. You are correct that none of your behaviour in this thread today merits thanks.

Now that's a candid, honest reply I like.

Now, getting back to the election, I believe I share your optimism and I am pleased Canadians are seeing through this silly niqab smokescreen. I am, I admit a little worried in Quebec, as the niqab issue seems to be more controversial there for some reason. AoD believes the BQ is dead there, and I trust he's spot on, so perhaps the NDP won't lose any seats on this wedge issue.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Now that's a candid, honest reply I like.

Now, getting back to the election, I believe I share your optimism and I am pleased Canadians are seeing through this silly niqab smokescreen. I am, I admit a little worried in Quebec, as the niqab issue seems to be more controversial there for some reason. AoD believes the BQ is dead there, and I trust he's spot on, so perhaps the NDP won't lose any seats on this wedge issue.

Don't be so sure, some Canadians are seeing through this, but I am sure there will be others that don't. As to Quebec - I am sure NDP will lose seats there, but they aren't bleeding in a way that would empower BQ in a big way.

AoD

 

[WislaHD]

From what I gather from the polls, nobody knows wtf is going on in Quebec.

NDP collapse? Liberals surge? One of the polls shows Conservative lead in Quebec, another suggests the Bloc are picking up those votes, not the Conservatives, and the Libs picking up a plurality.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Well, I just voted in the advance poll. Forgive me if I just helped to screw up the nation, but I chose good hair.