TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Has Tory said who'd be paying for the Mississauga portion?
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2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans
- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
Rainforest
Senior Member
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ssiguy2
Senior Member
Only some of it.
By next year the ENTIRE western leg of Smart Tracks will be done........it's called the UPX. All they have to do to get the first leg of Smart Tracks going is to let Torontonians take it. Yes electrification, more stations, trains, frequency but that can be phased in. UPX is exactly what UPX is, suburban rail except Smart Tracks would actually let people use it using their TTC pass.
As soon as the games are over and line goes from high ridership to pathetic overnight, you will see UPX system cancelled in it's current form and transferred over to Smart Tracks. In the course of a month you will take a useless luxury liner and create a true rapid transit line serving hundreds of thousands of people and scores of destination with rapid transit that currently have none.
By next year the ENTIRE western leg of Smart Tracks will be done........it's called the UPX. All they have to do to get the first leg of Smart Tracks going is to let Torontonians take it. Yes electrification, more stations, trains, frequency but that can be phased in. UPX is exactly what UPX is, suburban rail except Smart Tracks would actually let people use it using their TTC pass.
As soon as the games are over and line goes from high ridership to pathetic overnight, you will see UPX system cancelled in it's current form and transferred over to Smart Tracks. In the course of a month you will take a useless luxury liner and create a true rapid transit line serving hundreds of thousands of people and scores of destination with rapid transit that currently have none.
Rainforest
Senior Member
I am all for that, if doable.
But I heard that the elevated Pearson spoor cannot hold trains that are longer than 2 cars.
2-car trains will be way too short for the demand at the regular TTC price level. So, they would have to either rebuild the Pearson spoor, or run the long SmartTrack trains to Brampton instead of Pearson, and serve Pearson only with 2-car shuttles to Etobicoke North or Woodbine station.
nfitz
Superstar
UPX isn't SmartTrack. Trains too short, platforms not compatible.
I very much doubt you'd see UPX cancelled, even if something similar to Tory's scheme or GO RER is implemented, it doesn't preclude the need for a direction Union to Pearson airport train - which clearly has to be different equipment than you use for an RER-like scheme, because of vehicle size at Pearson station, and also the need to have quick direct service from Pearson to Union.
There'd likely be some minor UPX service adjustments. Perhaps one change you will see is less stops on the UPX, if those at Mount Dennis, Weston, and Bloor can use RER/SmartTrack instead to get to Union. Perhaps UPX would only stop once between Pearson and Union so RER passengers can change without going to Union - maybe at Etobicoke North, Weston, or Mount Dennis.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
First he has to figure out exactly who will be paying for the Toronto portion
Ha!
ssiguy2
Senior Member
I understood that Pearson will be able to accommodate 3 car trains, about 75 meters.
They could run that as is using TTC pass but also run trains to Malton using longer trains. Every other train would go to Malton or Pearson. This is exactly what the Canada Line does, it splits in 2. UPX is a fancy name for suburban rail like Sydney/Melbourne except in those cities people are allowed to use.
It's already done kids. This is not rocket science as all you need to do is charge the same for the UPX as you do for all TTC services and voila......Smart Tracks Phase One is complete.
They could run that as is using TTC pass but also run trains to Malton using longer trains. Every other train would go to Malton or Pearson. This is exactly what the Canada Line does, it splits in 2. UPX is a fancy name for suburban rail like Sydney/Melbourne except in those cities people are allowed to use.
It's already done kids. This is not rocket science as all you need to do is charge the same for the UPX as you do for all TTC services and voila......Smart Tracks Phase One is complete.
robmausser
Senior Member
Some of the UPX's will be 3 cars long
On 1 March 2011, it was announced that Metrolinx had chosen to buy 12 DMU cars (six 2-car trains) from Nippon Sharyo at a cost of C$53 million, for the service.[26] This was later expanded to 18 DMU cars (adding one car to each train) via an option order.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pearson_Express
robmausser
Senior Member
Everyone says that Union is over capacity and touting this like a fact.
Union has some capacity to spare, and they are adding two new platforms to the south
http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2012/08/cityrail-depth-corridor-capacity
http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...it_at_union_station_at_least_for_a_while.html
Union has some capacity to spare, and they are adding two new platforms to the south
http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2012/08/cityrail-depth-corridor-capacity
http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...it_at_union_station_at_least_for_a_while.html
nfitz
Superstar
This is indeed that concern. That once they ramp up full service on all the GO lines, that there won't be enough capacity at Union station.
Those platforms have been in the works for a while. They should be open in a few years. The capacity concerns are despite of this, in the 2020s and 2030s.
Sure, there is some capacity there now, and there is the ability to add more capacity as you have noted. There's also other schemes such as extending some of the platforms so they can handle two 12-car GO trains, and also a scheme to build an additional station - either on Bathurst Yard at Spadina or under the existing tracks east of Bay.
And yet there are still concerns about the ultimate capacity of the station. And that's before anyone adds a scheme to run subway-like frequencies!
EnviroTO
Senior Member
I agree the platforms are too short, but if SmartTracks was expected to provide a subway/metro like service it would also require high platforms. GO trains have longer station dwell times and can take the time to put out the wheelchair ramp. With the lower door count per passenger they need the longer dwell. If SmartTracks is going to provide subway like service then level platforms and a high door count would be needed, otherwise it is RER which is the province plan and not John Tory's.
nfitz
Superstar
Again, people are putting things into SmartTrack that aren't there. It's not supposed to provide subway-like service - it's only once every 15 minutes. This can only be done with 12-car double-decker trains. It's more like an RER or GO train than a TTC subway.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
It was sold as a way to not require the DRL. Any study will shoot down quickly any notion that SmartTracks could releive the Yonge line as a train every 15 minutes.
rbt
Senior Member
Yep. With 12-car double-decker trains they need to get frequencies down to ~6 minutes (20k pphpd) during peak periods to have a noticeable capacity alternative to Bloor/Yonge.
Lake Shore West achieves this frequency during AM peak (for about 50 minutes) so it should be doable even with diesels; easier when electrified.
GO/TTC could use much tighter integration at both Kennedy and Dundas West stations to make it a more practical alternative for current Bloor riders.
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nfitz
Superstar
Where did Tory say that this would not require DRL? They explicitly said once every 15 minutes.
And how could it relieve Bloor-Yonge station much? It doesn't intercept the Danforth line until Kennedy? Most people board the Danforth line west of Kennedy.