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2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Mayoral Race

Palma said:
Why do I keep reading in the transit formums that the DRL is funded? If that was the case (which I believe not), no need to sell off Toronto Hydro. These politicians are always short sighted its unreal. John Tory better not have the same idea. You know then Chow if she runs will be against that and that will be 1 dividing line between her and the others.
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Supposedly the province will have it funded in the next budget or something.

I'm in the same position. If Tory and Stintz' plan is this, then Chow automatically gets my vote. Hopefully Soknacki miraculously emerges in front of Stintz and proves to be a viable candidate to Tory on the right-of-center when divisive stances like Toronto Hydro become known. Or at least one can dream. :p
 
Silence&Motion said:
According to a tweet from Daniel Dale, Stintz is proposing to sell Toronto Hydro in order to pay for the DRL.

Let's keep this logic in mind: sell off a money-making asset in order to build something that will require huge annual operating costs in the future #fiscalresponsibility
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Stintz lost my vote with the "selling Toronto Hydro" proposal.
 
WislaHD said:
Supposedly the province will have it funded in the next budget or something.

I'm in the same position. If Tory and Stintz' plan is this, then Chow automatically gets my vote. Hopefully Soknacki miraculously emerges in front of Stintz and proves to be a viable candidate to Tory on the right-of-center when divisive stances like Toronto Hydro become known. Or at least one can dream. :p
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Soknacki is campaigning on a dead LRT plan. He rarely mentions a DRL nor any plan to fund more transit. It's all about the Scarborough LRT for him which a plan that will never happen as the province is moving forward with a subway extension. I'll take Karen Stintz or John Tory who both are at least campaigning on moving the city forward and not returning to a dead transit plan.
 
StevieD said:
Soknacki is campaigning on a dead LRT plan. He rarely mentions a DRL nor any plan to fund more transit. It's all about the Scarborough LRT for him which a plan that will never happen as the province is moving forward with a subway extension. I'll take Karen Stintz or John Tory who both are at least campaigning on moving the city forward and not returning to a dead transit plan.
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I not so sure about LRT being dead.

There has been a couple of flip flops already. And there could be one more when politicians realize there is broader support for LRT than they had thought. It is essential that Soknacki can focus on the relative cost of LRT vs subway. I suspect that realization might change a few minds. We're still in the very early stages yet. Cost have not been incurred for a subway. Heck they haven't even started on the EA yet.

Stintz and Tory can talk DRL all they want, but without a realistic funding plan, that's all it is.......talk.

Unless someone has the gumption to start talking revenue tools, we're back to square one......and hopefully that is Transit City.
 
VTB said:
I not so sure about LRT being dead.

There has been a couple of flip flops already. And there could be one more when politicians realize there is broader support for LRT than they had thought. It is essential that Soknacki can focus on the relative cost of LRT vs subway. I suspect that realization might change a few minds. We're still in the very early stages yet. Cost have not been incurred for a subway. Heck they haven't even started on the EA yet.

Stintz and Tory can talk DRL all they want, but without a realistic funding plan, that's all it is.......talk.

Unless someone has the gumption to start talking revenue tools, we're back to square one......and hopefully that is Transit City.
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The only way the LRT plan is back on is if the provincial government wants it back on. The Grits have backed the subway extension and all funds that was for the LRT are now for a subway. If the Grits are defeated in the likely spring election, and the Tories become the governing party, the LRT will still be dead. If Soknacki was to be elected mayor, his key campaign piece will die quickly when the province tells him and council that the subway will be built instead. Soknacki can promise to bring the LRT plan all he wants, but in the end, the subway extension is coming whether we like it or not. I would rather see Sokancki say that while he does not approve of the subway extension, he will not revisit what city council, the provincial government and the federal government have all agreed on. Then he can campaign on other rapid transit ideas for the east end of Toronto. As far as I can see, Sokancki's number one campaign promise is a lousy, losing promise and that alone is why I don't want to see him become mayor. I want someone who is focused on the next needed transit project, not someone who wants to reopen the Scarborough rapid transit debate.
 
One interesting thing w/Forum Research: usually, we're presented with 40th-percentile Ford "approval ratings" as if it were a voting percentile. But this time, we're offered such ratings for *all* the candidates--thus knocking that apparent Ford advantage (?) off its pedestal...

Tory’s Monday numbers were higher than they were in Forum’s other polls this winter. He had the highest approval rating, at 55 per cent. Ford’s approval was stable at 44 per cent. Chow’s was 51 per cent, Stintz’s 38 per cent, Soknacki’s 26 per cent.
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StevieD said:
The only way the LRT plan is back on is if the provincial government wants it back on. The Grits have backed the subway extension and all funds that was for the LRT are now for a subway. If the Grits are defeated in the likely spring election, and the Tories become the governing party, the LRT will still be dead. If Soknacki was to be elected mayor, his key campaign piece will die quickly when the province tells him and council that the subway will be built instead. Soknacki can promise to bring the LRT plan all he wants, but in the end, the subway extension is coming whether we like it or not. I would rather see Sokancki say that while he does not approve of the subway extension, he will not revisit what city council, the provincial government and the federal government have all agreed on. Then he can campaign on other rapid transit ideas for the east end of Toronto. As far as I can see, Sokancki's number one campaign promise is a lousy, losing promise and that alone is why I don't want to see him become mayor. I want someone who is focused on the next needed transit project, not someone who wants to reopen the Scarborough rapid transit debate.
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The Grits initially backed LRT for this route. Change of heart happened last summer when it was perceived there was broad support for subways. Another election ploy so Mitzi could get elected. Then Karen piled on and then RoFo took the credit.

All I'm saying is yet another change of heart is not out of the question. All is takes is a few polls showing folks turning back to supporting LRT's when they realize the cost of subways.

Right now the projection is an additional $1billion as the city's share. If true to form, the project goes over budget, the city is on the hook. Potentially we're looking at $2billion or maybe more. There will NOT leave much if any fiscal capacity for "the next needed transit project".
 
VTB said:
The Grits initially backed LRT for this route. Change of heart happened last summer when it was perceived there was broad support for subways. Another election ploy so Mitzi could get elected. Then Karen piled on and then RoFo took the credit.

All I'm saying is yet another change of heart is not out of the question. All is takes is a few polls showing folks turning back to supporting LRT's when they realize the cost of subways.

Right now the projection is an additional $1billion as the city's share. If true to form, the project goes over budget, the city is on the hook. Potentially we're looking at $2billion or maybe more. There will NOT leave much if any fiscal capacity for "the next needed transit project".
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I doubt at this point the current provincial government would go back to the LRT plan based on polls. The Scarborough Rapid Transit debate has gone on too long. The subway won in the end. Pushing for the LRT plan again isn't going to fly this time.
 
StevieD said:
I doubt at this point the current provincial government would go back to the LRT plan based on polls. The Scarborough Rapid Transit debate has gone on too long. The subway won in the end. Pushing for the LRT plan again isn't going to fly this time.
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That seems to be the prevailing sentiment. But I hope a $1-2billion difference is worth further debate.

We shall see! Keeping my fingers crossed!:)
 
no way will the project go way over budget as you are describing the TTC has already given itself an extremely cushy budget. the thing is going to cost $380 million per KM, and only have a stop on average every 2.5km.. The thing is way more expensive than the Spadina project which is still on budget despite a plethora of issues, and has an average station spacing closer to 1km. For comparison, it is $320 million per km for what should be a more expensive line. No way will this go over budget short of disaster such as tunnel collapse or something, and even then not by $1 billion. 30% cost inflation simply doesn't happen on projects this large, especially considering they already put a 20-30% "contingency" portion into the budget to deal with issues that inevitably end up in any project of this scale.
 
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JasonParis said:
Don't agree at all with Stintz, but may she argue (and would it be incorrect?) that the DRL, like the Yonge line, won't add to the TTC's operations costs?
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Well if go to forum on DRL, there are those that say DRL will not add that many new ridership but just switch ridership around. So if thats the case, how will the DRL not add to the TTC's operational costs? I do not buy this.
 
StevieD said:
The only way the LRT plan is back on is if the provincial government wants it back on. The Grits have backed the subway extension and all funds that was for the LRT are now for a subway. If the Grits are defeated in the likely spring election, and the Tories become the governing party, the LRT will still be dead. If Soknacki was to be elected mayor, his key campaign piece will die quickly when the province tells him and council that the subway will be built instead. Soknacki can promise to bring the LRT plan all he wants, but in the end, the subway extension is coming whether we like it or not. I would rather see Sokancki say that while he does not approve of the subway extension, he will not revisit what city council, the provincial government and the federal government have all agreed on. Then he can campaign on other rapid transit ideas for the east end of Toronto. As far as I can see, Sokancki's number one campaign promise is a lousy, losing promise and that alone is why I don't want to see him become mayor. I want someone who is focused on the next needed transit project, not someone who wants to reopen the Scarborough rapid transit debate.
Click to expand...

You actually think the PC's will build a subway with the costs? And the NDP if elected do not want more taxes for families so they will kill it, then back to LRT. Just becuase it was debated I do not understand the line "no one will revisit this debtae". Perhaps if people were informed during this race. I still think put it to a referendum to see the vote or do polls in Scarbourough. There have got to be people who are unimformed who favor subway because they feel they will be getting a stop. Who would not favour a subway if thats what they thought would happen (and the fact property values would rise)
 
Palma said:
Why do I keep reading in the transit formums that the DRL is funded? If that was the case (which I believe not), no need to sell off Toronto Hydro. These politicians are always short sighted its unreal. John Tory better not have the same idea. You know then Chow if she runs will be against that and that will be 1 dividing line between her and the others.
Click to expand...
That's not what I was saying. I was saying that she could argue that due to expected ridership levels, it won't add to TTC's operational costs (not talking capital here).

Palma said:
Well if go to forum on DRL, there are those that say DRL will not add that many new ridership but just switch ridership around. So if thats the case, how will the DRL not add to the TTC's operational costs? I do not buy this.
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I tend to agree that many riders will simply have their commute improved. However, I wouldn't discount the long-term ability of the DRL to bring-in new riders, particularly in the "shoulder areas" east and west of downtown that are currently being developed. It basically allows to Toronto to densify more east-west as the Yonge line has allowed north-south.
 
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