2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Mayoral Race

[kEiThZ]

kEiTHZ, I spend ~40-45% of my net income on rent and would find it hard to believe that anyone would find me to be living any sort of definition of "poor". So, I'm not exactly sure of that yardstick.

Your argument is with StatsCan and CMHC. Not me. They consider you poor.

The definition does make sense. Quality of life is largely determined by disposable income. If a huge proportion of your family income is spent on food and shelter, you are poor. Working poor.

 

[SunriseChampion]

It's an odd definition of poverty.

On top of that rent, I eat very well, smoke expensive cigs, travel quite a bit, and am able to service personal debt to the satisfaction of creditors....not to mention invest in mutual funds and equities and save for retirement. I make 36-40 k a year, net.

Statscan is wrong.

 

[Palma]

I'm not inclined to be a Chow supporter, but I'm finding some of the response here to her statements strange. Some of the same people who express doubt that a family can live in Toronto on $60,000 annual income also want to dismiss the idea that poverty is a problem. If you believe it takes a hundred thousand or more a year for a family to live decently, shouldn't you also recognize that large swaths of people don't have the ability to make anywhere near that? Isn't that a problem? Or are you just willing to write all those people off? Do you think they should all be living elsewhere?

Did you not read what WislaHD said? Lower middle class families do not qualify for many benefits. And you saying "Do you think they should all be living elsewhere", well if you cannot afford a trip to Europe do you go? Not everyone can live in Toronto.

 

[nohostages]

It's an odd definition of poverty.

On top of that rent, I eat very well, smoke expensive cigs, travel quite a bit, and am able to service personal debt to the satisfaction of creditors....not to mention invest in mutual funds and equities and Dave for retirement. I make 36-40 k a year, net.

Statscan is wrong.

You are frugal, but it would be hard to raise kids at that rate and save for their education and put them in sports... I have an aunt who raised three alone with no help from the deadbeat father. Shes my Hero.

 

[kEiThZ]

Just did CBC Vote Compass. I'm just slightly off the origin. So I really am a staunch centrist. Who knew?

71% compatibility with Tory
63% with Chow
55% with Ford.

Exactly as I figured. I did vote for the right candidate for me.

I recommend it. Fun and informative introspective exercise.

 

[nohostages]

kEiTHZ, I spend ~40-45% of my net income on rent and would find it hard to believe that anyone would find me to be living any sort of definition of "poor". So, I'm not exactly sure of that yardstick.

That is a function of a tight real estate market in this city. In desirable areas the housing portion of the pie must necessarily be higher. I forwent a car when I lived at College Spadina. High rent, walked or biked almost everywhere.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Did you miss the part about servicing personal debt?
People who know me would laugh at both the idea of me being characterised as poor and frugal.

1300/mth rent for ~ 330 sq ft is stupid, not frugal.

I just don't see myself as poor. Maybe from a metrialistic point of view, but I prefer experiences to possessions.

 

[kEiThZ]

It's an odd definition of poverty.

On top of that rent, I eat very well, smoke expensive cigs, travel quite a bit, and am able to service personal debt to the satisfaction of creditors....not to mention invest in mutual funds and equities and save for retirement. I make 36-40 k a year, net.

Statscan is wrong.

Again. The scenario on Newstalk 1010 was for a family of four with two teenagers to live in the downtown core.

As for the definition, it's a reasonable guideline. There will always be outliers. If I make $10k per month (after tax) and spend $5k on rent, I'm not exactly poor. But if I net $2k per month and spend $1k on rent, then I'm likely to be poor.

The definition is one aspect. Living costs are another. That's why you see varying definitions of the poverty line based on income. (~$19000 for a single person in the GTA). At your income level, you're well above poverty line.

What was puzzling about Chow's answer is that $60k for four is basically near the poverty line for Toronto (especially if talking downtown). And Chow says this was fine to live comfortably. For someone so concerned about poverty, she should have known better.

 

[kEiThZ]

Incidentally, vote compass will really show why Chow is struggling. She's as far to the left as Ford is to the right.

What's surprising is why Ford is polling as high as he is.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

While the disappearance of the middle class is a problem of great concern to me I feel it is important to remember that easing the worst of poverties' burden helps society in general. A desperately poor populace causes myriad problems that trickle up through all. Health, crime, prisons, policing, foster care, mental health. All expensive issues that can be alleviated by increasing wealth across all spectrums.

Agreed, but we have to come together as a society for that to happen.

 

[typezed]

Did you not read what WislaHD said? Lower middle class families do not qualify for many benefits. And you saying "Do you think they should all be living elsewhere", well if you cannot afford a trip to Europe do you go? Not everyone can live in Toronto.

WislaHD was typing his comment while I was typing mine, and I wasn't referring to any of his previous commentary. I don't think discretionary travel and being able to afford to live in a city are the same thing. Especially for people who were raised in Toronto, should they move elsewhere because they can't manage professional class incomes? (Note: I left Toronto last year because affordable accomodation became too difficult to find.) Affordability and accessibility should be a political goal. A vibrant healthy city should be able to accomodate working class people, service industry workers, families, newcomers, students, artists, nomads. I do agree with WislaHD's statements that traditional social welfare programs favoured by Chow perhaps focus on too small a group of needy people while doing little to lessen the squeeze on others, which is why I wouldn't be a supporter of her's. Still, I think she's right to be concerned about inequality and inaccessibility.

 

[Kat_YYZ]

Did you miss the part about servicing personal debt?
People who know me would laugh at both the idea of me being characterised as poor and frugal.

1300/mth rent for ~ 330 sq ft is stupid, not frugal.

I just don't see myself as poor. Maybe from a metrialistic point of view, but I prefer experiences to possessions.

ouch, how are you paying that much for rent? are you renting in a downtown condo?

I'm at Y/Eg in a typical rental mid-rise building, and my jr 1 bedroom is still just a few bucks under $1,000 (that includes one parking spot, and hydro!).

I also wish I could find a 'significant other' and not just for companionship it would make a huge difference financially. Yardsticks are always about families with kids, but it's fair question: can single people afford to live in this city?

 

[SJD_Toronto]

Just did CBC Vote Compass. I'm just slightly off the origin. So I really am a staunch centrist. Who knew?

71% compatibility with Tory
63% with Chow
55% with Ford.

Exactly as I figured. I did vote for the right candidate for me.

I recommend it. Fun and informative introspective exercise.

I did it too. My compatibility with Tory was over 80%.

 

[kEiThZ]

Still, I think she's right to be concerned about inequality and inaccessibility.

Not the purview of the mayoralty.

So many of the determinants of poverty and employment are outside of a mayor's control. It's really stupid to even focus on this.

The mayor can't control interest rates or CMHC policies. The mayor can't mandate the private sector to hire more youth or immigrants. The mayor can't control general economic trends of the country, province or region.

So while every politician should be concerned about inequality, they should also understand what is in their bailiwick.

 

[kEiThZ]

. Yardsticks are always about families with kids, but it's fair question: can single people afford to live in this city?

Have a kid. You'll realise why yardsticks are about families after the first few daycare bills.