2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Mayoral Race

[AlvinofDiaspar]

to all:

Please don't throw around ignoring someone as an argument - keep at it and bannings will ensure.

MoD

 

[freshcutgrass]

This is my main problem with her - she does not understand (or does not care) about the unintended consequences of her policies.

Sorry....but it's your belief in proven-wrong Reaganesque fiscal policies that is faulty and has detrimental consequences.

 

[kEiThZ]

Don't get this argument that Chow co-op housing thing was "debunked". Never said she did anything illegal. Politics is about perception. And there's no way that a lot of voters won't see as unacceptable a politician with a family income far more than most families make taking advantage of co-op housing. And that's my point. While something may be legal, it may not necessarily be viewed as ethical by the voting public.

Next, the idea that it's no big deal to raise the LTT because it only impacts a small percentage of home owners. This policy should be particularly interesting. It will hit hardest in the areas of the city that traditionally would support Chow. The policy does raise the question of whether she will restrict herself to just certain thresholds. Why stop at $2 million? A $1-$1.5 million home is still substantial for most residents in the 416. And of course, the bulk of these funds are going towards social programs that will become ongoing liabilities. Will these programs be expanded and what happens if funding for these programs fall short? Hence the hard to shake idea that she's a "tax and spend" type of politician.

Incidentally, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being a "tax and spend" politician. What I find bizarre, is the strange attempt to downplay her record as one.

I actually like several of her ideas actually. I just dont think they should be implemented at the municipal level. School breakfast and lunch programs should be province (or even nation) wide. Not funded by a fixed tax base largely reliant on property taxes. Ditto for day care (I'd even suggest public daycare should be merged into the school system). And I would gladly pay higher provincial taxes for these programs. But at the municipal level, I do think funding such programs will do serious harm to the core business of a city, which certainly is suffering in Toronto.

 

[nfitz]

Sure, sure... but anyway, I don't think it's a fair criticism. Many private clubs did not admit Jews in the recent past - in fact, there were many clubs started by Jews precisely for that reason - but none are like that today.

Aren't they? I've heard comments about golf clubs not admitting people based on race. I certainly haven't gone around and checked them all.

However, the point is, that some did this until relatively recently. If someone currently running for office chose to be a member of such a club while they banned Jews, then that raises serious integrity questions about that individual. They are still the same individual who made the same decision to join such a club - even if they opposed the policy. Particularly if they think that going to such clubs is how to get ahead.

It's a bit like refusing to buy a Volkswagen or Hugo Boss suit because they used to be affiliated with the Nazis, or to criticize Olivia Chow because she voted for something as a councillor in the 90's. People change and so do institutions...

I have no problem criticizing Chow for what she supported in the 1990s, if it was in contravention with 1990s wisdom. And I have no problem criticizing anyone who bought a Volkswagen in the early 1940s - though is anyone running who did this? At the same time, joining a club that used to ban Jews, but doesn't anymore, shouldn't be an issue.

Though personally, I'm not going to drop tens of thousands of dollars for a vehicle from a company that does no manufacturing in Canada. I've never purchased a car that wasn't built in Ontario (though I might if the manufacturer does manufacture other models here. My only visit to a VW dealership in the pre-Internet age was very short. After I asked where the car was built, then I asked which models were built in Canada or the USA. I was quite surprised that such a large company, had not Canadian or US manufacturing (at the time); and I was very surprised they expected me to drop that much more for a car built in Mexico compared to other vendors!).

 

[nfitz]

Don't get this argument that Chow co-op housing thing was "debunked".

You didn't say co-op housing in your attack on her. You said public housing.

I believe this is the first time you've mentioned co-op housing. Which is of course, not public housing.

 

[kEiThZ]

With all due respect, there's no way that it's "lack of willingness to tackle the issues facing the city" that has lead to her polling so badly. Maybe that's what well-informed, progressive voters think of her campaign, but unfortunately we are a small minority in this city. For most she's just a complete write-off because of who she is - NDP, married to Jack Layton, bleeding heart liberal, poor public speaker, etc. I don't think it would matter what her platform was, to be honest.

Undoubtedly. I don't get why people thought that this history would help her. Torontonians are radically centrist. They tend not to favour candidates firmly on one-side of the spectrum. I always get the sense that where one has snuck through (like Rob Ford), it's always been because of folksy charm that avoided shining a spotlight on their political leanings.

I don't have any facts to back it up, but I would argue that the LTT has had a negative impact on the supply of houses for sale, particularly for starter homes. Trading up has become very expensive, so more people just stay put. Of course this leads to more bidding wars, and higher prices.

I'd say CMHC mortgage policies and BoC ZIRP has done much more to make housing unaffordable than the LTT ever did. The LTT tends to rob developers first and home sellers subsequently. But you'd be hard pressed to find a developer that didn't pursue development or someone who didn't buy a home because of LTT.

When it comes to large-scale projects, I am 100% sure that the impact of tax changes would be modeled in. If demand will allow for it, developers will simply pass on the increase in costs to condo buyers.[/QUOTE]

 

[kEiThZ]

I don't doubt that for one minute - but of course the funny thing is that this slide didn't happen until the ensuring months, which again points to how labelling affects perception regardless of what her policies stood for.

This then begs the question of why some labels stick for some politicians and not others.

There's been all kinds of attempts to label Tory. They haven't seemed to tank him in the polls. And the labels for the Fords? Well, no newspaper could print them. But look at DoFo's polling. So why are labels hurting Chow more than others?

 

[kEiThZ]

It's beyond that. Remember that John Tory was a long-time member of a golf club that until surprisingly recently didn't even allow Jews in - let alone non-whites and women!

I'm curious if this is only a one-way concern for you. Would you be concerned at all if a woman from the Toronto Ladies Golf Club was running for office?

 

[Greg Banks]

Sorry to spam this page, but we're looking for intelligent voters to ask some questions to the Toronto Mayoral Candidates.

We have a 6 day timeline to post a question.
The top 3 rated questions will be chosen and posed to all 3 mayoral candidates (OC has already agreed, other 2 in progress).
The candidates will all post their responses in advance of the polls.
Visit www.eleQted.com to post your own top questions.

Is anyone is registered on this site? If so would you be so kind as to pose this question to all three....

If you were not a candidate for mayor who would you vote for?

 

[nfitz]

I'm curious if this is only a one-way concern for you. Would you be concerned at all if a woman from the Toronto Ladies Golf Club was running for office?

Racism is a concern for me. If that club bans Jews and non-whites then yes, I'd be concerned. I'm not aware that any candidates are members though ... or that that club bans Jews or non-whites.

 

[typezed]

So much talk of someone who living in co-op housing 20 years ago and the golf club someone has membership in, but so little talk that the outgoing Mayor was a drug addict negotiating with criminals ($5,000 and a car) and that his brother now running to replace him is well-known throughout their territory as a former drug dealer. It's bizarro.

 

[the lemur]

I'm curious if this is only a one-way concern for you. Would you be concerned at all if a woman from the Toronto Ladies Golf Club was running for office?

I don't know if there is such a thing as a Toronto Ladies Golf Club, but if there is, think about why it might exist. Is it a golf club that doesn't allow men to use its facilities?

 

[the lemur]

This then begs the question of why some labels stick for some politicians and not others.

There's been all kinds of attempts to label Tory. They haven't seemed to tank him in the polls. And the labels for the Fords? Well, no newspaper could print them. But look at DoFo's polling. So why are labels hurting Chow more than others?

I don't have an answer for that. But that's not what 'beg the question' means. You mean 'raise the question'.

 

[the lemur]

Though personally, I'm not going to drop tens of thousands of dollars for a vehicle from a company that does no manufacturing in Canada. I've never purchased a car that wasn't built in Ontario (though I might if the manufacturer does manufacture other models here. My only visit to a VW dealership in the pre-Internet age was very short. After I asked where the car was built, then I asked which models were built in Canada or the USA. I was quite surprised that such a large company, had not Canadian or US manufacturing (at the time); and I was very surprised they expected me to drop that much more for a car built in Mexico compared to other vendors!).

I understand the principle, but sometimes it's just not possible to get the kind of vehicle (or other product) you want among those built in Ontario or Canada. You need to consider the kind of volume that would make it worthwhile for a manufacturer to set up operations in Canada.

I have a Mexican-built VW. It's an excellent car, still going strong after 10 years. VW builds its cars to the same standards in many of its worldwide locations, using parts from all over. I have never experienced the kind of complaints that some people have about Mexican-built anything when it comes to my car. A comparable model built in the US or Canada would have cost VW more to build and frankly, at the time, there was no North American-built car in the same class that was comparable in terms of quality and equipment. I did a lot of test driving.

VW will probably never build anything in Canada, and its US operations are cost-effective only for certain models. Ignoring those economics results in short-lived assembly plants like the Hyundai one in Quebec, or VW's own plant in Pennsylvania.

 

[salsa]

So much talk of someone who living in co-op housing 20 years ago and the golf club someone has membership in, but so little talk that the outgoing Mayor was a drug addict negotiating with criminals ($5,000 and a car) and that his brother now running to replace him is well-known throughout their territory as a former drug dealer. It's bizarro.

All this hoopla about ancient non-scandals is a joke. But to be fair, the mayor has a huge thread dedicated to him, with almost 100,000 posts and counting.

Racism is a concern for me. If that club bans Jews and non-whites then yes, I'd be concerned. I'm not aware that any candidates are members though ... or that that club bans Jews or non-whites.

nfitz, you should be way more concerned about the platform he's running on today, than silly stuff like this from many years ago.