Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[Chris R.]

The feds announced 1.7B in support for the Hamilton LRT in 2021.

This is the press release from 2021:

Federal government and province commit to shovel ready Hamilton Light Rail Transit project from McMaster to Eastgate at Centennial Park - Canada.ca

Today the Honourable Catherine McKenna, federal Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, the Honourable Filomena Tassi, Minister of Labour and Member of Parliament for Hamilton West – Ancaster – Dundas, and Caroline Mulroney, Ontario Minister of Transportation announced that both governments...

www.canada.ca

Nothing new here, unless funding had had been formally clawed back at some point.

The new information is the agreement to sign within 90 days (and likely the reason Aecon hasn't been announced yet as the winning bid for civil works contract)

 

[lastcommodore]

View attachment 726849
We have reference design documentation if you want to estimate radius though its no guarantee the final contract goes with this exact alignment.

I imported the image and aligned it, i find the south radius is 44 metres and the north radius is 31 metres. For reference, the Humber turn on 6FW is 40m. I would not hold my breath for >15kmh speeds on these turns.

Regardless, I am going to mostly going to posit that this is suboptimal, but not a Very Big Deal-- A well operated tram can still operate fast even with these unfortunate turns. ION in the downtown area (Willis Way - Mill) still achieves 18kmh despite the even more unfavourable geometry there.

Does anyone have a link to the full reference documents?

 

[urbanclient]

I imported the image and aligned it, i find the south radius is 44 metres and the north radius is 31 metres. For reference, the Humber turn on 6FW is 40m. I would not hold my breath for >15kmh speeds on these turns.

Regardless, I am going to mostly going to posit that this is suboptimal, but not a Very Big Deal-- A well operated tram can still operate fast even with these unfortunate turns. ION in the downtown area (Willis Way - Mill) still achieves 18kmh despite the even more unfavourable geometry there.

Does anyone have a link to the full reference documents?

I roughly estimated it myself, I was getting 30 metres radius at most, might be closer to 25 metres for the north radius (King and Dundurn). Could be wrong though.

And "not a Very Big Deal", yes. Assuming the Citadis Spirits are fixed by the time the line is open. I'm almost sure there is rolling stock with non-pivoting bogies that turn better.

 

[Corktownie]

I imported the image and aligned it, i find the south radius is 44 metres and the north radius is 31 metres. For reference, the Humber turn on 6FW is 40m. I would not hold my breath for >15kmh speeds on these turns.

Regardless, I am going to mostly going to posit that this is suboptimal, but not a Very Big Deal-- A well operated tram can still operate fast even with these unfortunate turns. ION in the downtown area (Willis Way - Mill) still achieves 18kmh despite the even more unfavourable geometry there.

Does anyone have a link to the full reference documents?

Here is the full document: https://www.hamilton.ca/sites/defau...ailTransit_Hamilton-LRT-Conceptual-Design.pdf

I think you're right that the curves themsevles are not a very big deal, but the number of traffic signals might be much more of a problem. Where the old alignment had one traffic signal (King/Dundurn), this alignment has three (King/Dundurn, plaza entrance, Main/Dundurn). There better be some very aggressive signal priority or this could easily end up adding a couple of extra minutes to every trip.

 

[Sunllie]

Im making this a separate comment because it's essentially rumour creating, but Aecon has recently posted a ton of jobs in Hamilton for a large civil works infrastructure project requiring multiple GIS experts, Executive Assistant for the Utilities Division of the Urban Transportation Solutions sector, Risk Analyst, PLAA, Track Manager, and a Community Engagement.

Take of that what you will.

The Track Manager posting says a lot.

 

[smallspy]

I think the bigger issue with our LRTs is the lack of speed on straightaways. LRT can operate at 60km/h - 80km/h, and yet our LRTs often travel at 30-40km/h for two large reasons:

1) LRT cannot have their own speed limit, so if automobiles have a 40 km/h speed limit this applied to the centre running, tracked LRT for whatever reason.

Says who?

In Toronto the LRTs have been given a maximum speed limit 10km/h higher than the adjoining roadway lanes.

2) Risk avoidance, being scared of running them too quickly because of fear of issues. For whatever reason we are unable to build fast and safe transit. It has to be slow to be safe apparently.

In large part, that's largely of a function of the entities maintaining the LRTs, who in Toronto are not the ones operating them. If Hamilton were to follow that same example, then it shouldn't be as much of a problem.

However, if you have a system maintainer who is also responsible for operating the LRT and creating the schedules, then provided there is no incentive to provide a brisk service in the contract than the results are going to be self-evident - and disappointing.

Hamilton's LRT should be able to hit 60km/h along much of this route but will be limited by the automobile speed limit (which is 50km but should be 40) and will be run like a risky piece of infrastructure, accelerated like it's fill with people made of glass.

Again, it depends on who is chosen to be the operator. Hamilton should do its level best to make sure that it is the HSR calling the shots on that front, and not some faceless consortium who's primary target is meeting quarterly profit margins.

Dan

 

[Chris R.]

Says who?

In Toronto the LRTs have been given a maximum speed limit 10km/h higher than the adjoining roadway lanes.

Says Metrolinx staff when asked. They were clear the LRT would travel the posted speed limit for the entire ROW and be applicable to all modes.

Where in Toronto have separate speed limits been used? I ask because the Hamilton LRT is not a street car but it is also very much not a fully grade separated (except intersections) LRT like Finch or Eglinton. The curbs in made places for example are planned to be easily mountable curbs for use by emergency vehicles.

 

[hw621]

Unfortunately 99.9% chance, unless Metrolinx changes the procurement to another vehicle.

Which all indications seem like they dont plan on changing whatsoever, because they're incapable of learning from mistakes.

ML never admits that Citrus is a mistake. Nothing to learn from...

 

[smallspy]

Says Metrolinx staff when asked. They were clear the LRT would travel the posted speed limit for the entire ROW and be applicable to all modes.

Where in Toronto have separate speed limits been used? I ask because the Hamilton LRT is not a street car but it is also very much not a fully grade separated (except intersections) LRT like Finch or Eglinton. The curbs in made places for example are planned to be easily mountable curbs for use by emergency vehicles.
View attachment 727043

Both of the LRTs that have been built and opened - Eglinton, between Leslie and Kennedy, and Finch between Keele and Hwy 27 - have these higher limits. If you dig around in the Finch West or Eglinton threads, you'll see links to the relevant reports.

Streetcars, on the other hand, are limited to the same speed of the road.

Dan