Full Metal Junkie
Senior Member
Sometimes I am still amazed that people with such boneheaded opinions exist. This is one of those instances.
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Alto - High Speed Rail (Toronto-Quebec City)
- Thread starter innsertnamehere
- Start date
Sometimes I am still amazed that people with such boneheaded opinions exist. This is one of those instances.
generalcanada
Senior Member
I think their communication on the crossings could be better, but for those areas where it would go right through the middle of a property, the expropriation doesnt just cover the crossing, but reimburses for the loss of use on the other side of the property
crs1026
Superstar
The disfunctional effect of arbitrarily cutting across large farms was one issue raised in California that led to litigation and therefore delays - there were cases where the amount of land taken was not large but the impact on the farm was huge - farmers had to take a detour of several miles to reach the severed portion. One would hope that Alto would learn from this, but won't likely solve it all. The collateral damage has to be acknowledged as such.
I can relate to the emotional impact of the loss of family land - when the 407 was extended eastwards, one of the accesses cut across land that had been in my mother's family since it was first settled in the 1830's. The issue was not loss of the property - my distant cousins smiled all the way to the bank - but the first thing the constructor did was scrape all the topsoil into one big pile and haul it away. Seeing that big mound and knowing it represented the hard work of many generations of my forebears was heartbreaking, even if it was for the general good.
- Paul
I can relate to the emotional impact of the loss of family land - when the 407 was extended eastwards, one of the accesses cut across land that had been in my mother's family since it was first settled in the 1830's. The issue was not loss of the property - my distant cousins smiled all the way to the bank - but the first thing the constructor did was scrape all the topsoil into one big pile and haul it away. Seeing that big mound and knowing it represented the hard work of many generations of my forebears was heartbreaking, even if it was for the general good.
- Paul
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facepalming_brooklynite
Active Member
Some people might even disagree that building the 407 was for the general good
ownthesky
Active Member
Is anyone else watching Poilievre's conference in Peterborough at the moment? It's a bit schizophrenic with the logic - he simultaneously is calling the project too slow, comparing it to construction of the Canadian Pacific Railway that constructed a railway over wide-open recently conquered lands in 4 years, while also bemoaning the tragedy of taking land from people. Well do you want it rushed or do you want people consulted and compensated fairly? You can't have it both ways.
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txlseries4
Active Member
Possibly related? Globe and Mail staff: https://bsky.app/profile/oliver-moore.bsky.social/post/3mieu75ltvs2y
StreetcarRider
Active Member
Here's the press release - "Stop $90B Alto Rail, Say Conservatives: Poilievre announces future Conservative government would cancel project that would cost $8,000 per family." https://www.conservative.ca/stop-90b-alto-rail-say-conservatives/
ownthesky
Active Member
Thank you, I started googling when the cameras started rolling but they must post these things with tight timing.
I find "The project’s total estimated cost is greater than the current federal deficit" a little misleading and is definitely a bit "big number scary!" move, it's not like that cost will be paid all it once in once budget year - over the same construction timeline, we'll spend far more in paying high income seniors OAS, if you really want to see big scary numbers.
Doing this in Peterborough is a bit funny- it's a city that will benefit greatly from this project, whereas the actual small towns who will be impacted weren't used to host him. Peterborough was (is?) a major hub of reactionary far right convoy silliness, so this seems like an attempt to capture that demographic's attention.
micheal_can
Senior Member
In his current bid to stay relevant in an ever changing political landscape, he is trying to be everything for everyone. Makes me wonder how he would have reacted to this push back had he become PM and had to deal with it.
ownthesky
Active Member
My assumption is he would do what Doug Ford did with Wynne's renewable energy projects: cancel them and attribute the massive costs of litigating and settling them to his political enemies.
If by some chance he chose to keep the project, he'd probably employ the "shared sacrifice for the economy" logic that Canadians are asked to embrace for fossil fuel pipelines through unwilling land.
micheal_can
Senior Member
That would appease the locals and piss off the cites. I do not think it would be that simple.
Reality is, even if this were to harm where I live, HSRis needed desperately in Canada.
generalcanada
Senior Member
With conservatives fully against it, could make things more difficult to get it built.
Though if carney secures his majority through 2029 could be enough to get construction started and prevent them from cancelling it
Though if carney secures his majority through 2029 could be enough to get construction started and prevent them from cancelling it
ericmacm
Active Member
The CPC’s latest policy declaration still has them supporting high-speed rail. To take such a position while still maintaining this as official policy is going to look incredibly bad for those in the moderate and business-oriented wings of the CPC, and especially for those that want to see infrastructure built.
Obstructionism against the construction of infrastructure is something that the CPC has rallied against for years in the realm of pipelines and highways. To now stand for the obstruction and cancellation of a project of this scale, popularity, and level of importance (one where $4B+ has already been committed in the design/acquisition process) looks really bad and might backfire on them.
PL1
Senior Member
PP will clutch onto anything that stops him from drowning (metaphorically). I think he knows he's approaching his best before date as leader. Or so I think
zang
Senior Member
When he sees a rural/suburban grievance he will try to capitalize on it. Nothing more than that. It's kinda sad that he's so predictable in that way.