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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

Haljackey said:
That's how it's done in many other countries. Seems like underutilized space. During peak people are getting to work and back- off peak it's more for leisurely trips and not used as much while the other lanes can still be jammed.
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I don't know, I frequently see the HOV lanes experiencing the same traffic congestion as the other lanes off peak, including on weekends. Seems like opening them up to other traffic will just make that worse.
 
Undead said:
HOVs always seemed like a waste of capacity even in peak hours.
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I find that when the main lanes are at a standstill the HOV lane is either also at a standstill or not that much better. For moderate traffic they can work, but cars re-entering the main lanes slow everyone down behind them. I'm not really sure if HOV lanes are worth it 80% of the time.
 
I was in California two years ago and drove from San Francisco to San Jose and the HOV/HOT lanes all had electronic signage setup to notify drivers about access and it was geared to the usage and demand.
They were completely flexible as the sign would tell you that an HOV lane was open to anyone, or only for HOV, or open to everyone only to a certain interchange or off-ramp from the highway and even that it would be open further ahead on the highway, so it was clearly linked to some kind of automated monitoring of vehicle flow.
Not sure why we cannot do the same here.
 
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MisterF said:
Premier carbrain strikes again. JFC.

All Ontario drivers will be able to use HOV lanes in off-peak hours: transportation minister
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The only benefit I see this serving is for weekend travel. As the roads can become quite congested on weekends, particularly in the summer months with travel to cottage country (looking at you Hwy 400 and 404 HOV lanes). But honestly aside from maybe the midday period between the am and pm peak, evenings and overnight hours generally aren't overly congested. Plus many motorists ignore the HOV lanes anyway so it's in a way admitting defeat and it wouldn't surprise me if they finally said "yep we're giving up on HOV lanes now"
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
The only benefit I see this serving is for weekend travel. As the roads can become quite congested on weekends, particularly in the summer months with travel to cottage country (looking at you Hwy 400 and 404 HOV lanes). But honestly aside from maybe the midday period between the am and pm peak, evenings and overnight hours generally aren't overly congested. Plus many motorists ignore the HOV lanes anyway so it's in a way admitting defeat and it wouldn't surprise me if they finally said "yep we're giving up on HOV lanes now"
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My experience is that the number of 2+ person vehicles is far higher on weekends and therefor the HOVs are a lot busier.

Honestly HOVs seem to be empty in morning rush hours when it's basically only commuters on the road, but by the evening rush there are more recreational trips and those are far more likely to be 2+ people to the point where the HOVs are similar to the mainline lanes.

Evening rush tends to see a small improvement in flow over the general purpose lanes - no differnece on weekends - and a huge difference in the morning.

Generally I think HOVs are a waste of space and should be removed. Especially in places like the 403/QEW through Halton where MTO could fit a 10-lane cross section on the highway instead of the current 8-lane cross section needed to fit the wider HOV lanes.
 
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innsertnamehere said:
My experience is that the number of 2+ person vehicles is far higher on weekends and therefor the HOVs are a lot less busy.

Honestly HOVs seem to be empty in morning rush hours when it's basically only commuters on the road, but by the evening rush there are more recreational trips and those are far more likely to be 2+ people to the point where the HOVs are similar to the mainline lanes.

Evening rush tends to see a small improvement in flow over the general purpose lanes - no differnece on weekends - and a huge difference in the morning.

Generally I think HOVs are a waste of space and should be removed. Especially in places like the 403/QEW through Halton where MTO could fit a 10-lane cross section on the highway instead of the current 8-lane cross section needed to fit the wider HOV lanes.
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Agreed. I think money would be better spent on building bus lanes rather than HOV lanes.
 
Agree- you can add in 2 general lanes with the room a single HOV lane needs- since there's that buffer zone and a wide inner shoulder. I feel that would be more useful in most scenarios

In regards to bus lanes- have those run on the outer shoulders. Many routes are just going between interchanges anyway so makes sense to have them run on the outside. When there's a breakdown/pull over in the shoulder, or an exit/entry, that's when the busses would temp need to merge into the rightmost lane before moving back to the shoulder.

Heck, many countries allow the shoulder to be used during certain times - screw safety for more volume lol
 
Haljackey said:
In regards to bus lanes- have those run on the outer shoulders. Many routes are just going between interchanges anyway so makes sense to have them run on the outside. When there's a breakdown/pull over in the shoulder, or an exit/entry, that's when the busses would temp need to merge into the rightmost lane before moving back to the shoulder.
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The 403 has this over the Credit River
 
Haljackey said:
Agree- you can add in 2 general lanes with the room a single HOV lane needs- since there's that buffer zone and a wide inner shoulder. I feel that would be more useful in most scenarios

In regards to bus lanes- have those run on the outer shoulders. Many routes are just going between interchanges anyway so makes sense to have them run on the outside. When there's a breakdown/pull over in the shoulder, or an exit/entry, that's when the busses would temp need to merge into the rightmost lane before moving back to the shoulder.

Heck, many countries allow the shoulder to be used during certain times - screw safety for more volume lol
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I was thinking more along the lines of running a parallel running Transitway.

With the 403 in Mississauga, you could scrap the HOV lanes, widen the road to eight general purpose lanes, and have the Mississauga Transitway running parallel to the highway.

Not a fan of the bus shoulder lanes because they can become a problem with on/off ramps.
 
The 403 in Mississauga has curb-running bus lanes, HOV lanes, AND a transitway.

The 403/QEW in Halton can't just be repainted to 10 lanes if you remove the HOV without introducing substandard shoulder widths, but the corridor is wide enough to fit 10 lanes with a repaving to widen the platform slightly. You wouldn't need to replace bridges, realign service roads, etc. like you would if you wanted to add a lane while keeping the HOV lane. It would be relatively inexpensive, but not "free". A standard lane is 3.75m wide on a 400-series highway compared to ~5.4 metres wide for an HOV lane.. so a difference of about ~1.6 metres. You would need to either reduce shoulders by 2m or widen the platform by 2m to fit an extra lane with conversion, and I doubt MTO would accept a ~1m interior shoulder on a 10-lane freeway facility.
 
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Haljackey said:
...Extend the 404 to Casino Rama? Reminds me of the South Park Episode where the native casino operators want to demolish the town to build a freeway to their casino.

I assume Highway 7's traffic volumes are 'lower' than expected because drivers just don't want to deal with it. There are alternate routes like the 401. Volumes will go up a lot whenever the freeway is built (cough cough induced demand)

Highway 6 on the other hand- that's high because there's really no other alternative. Unless you want to travel through Cambridge on Highway 24 instead, get to Brantford and then backtrack on the 403, Highway 6 is just more direct.

Highway 12 through Orillia does seem simple to widen, but I guess it's still operating semi-decently since there's not many intersections and fronting business. It does get really congested during the summer however.

Highway 10 does need 4 laning all the way up to Shelbourne.
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Highway 10 probably needs a Shelburne bypass, along with more passing lanes up to at least Markdale. For whatever reason someone decided that Shelburne and Dundalk needed more residential sprawl, and the traffic is getting worse without any reasonable alternative routes or transit.
 
ShonTron said:
Highway 10 probably needs a Shelburne bypass, along with more passing lanes up to at least Markdale. For whatever reason someone decided that Shelburne and Dundalk needed more residential sprawl, and the traffic is getting worse without any reasonable alternative routes or transit.
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effects of the growth plan limiting low-rise residential construction within the greenbelt - people drive till' they qualify, and that means the north side of the greenbelt. So Shelbourne, Angus, Innisfil, Alliston all enjoy rapid growth that should really be happening in Vaughan and Brampton.

Also - a lot less people work full time these days with the population aging. Lots of seniors cashing out to lower cost of living areas of the province while still being close to the GTA to visit.
 
I had some thoughts on the HOV lane announcement this week. Not just a distraction from other things on the Ford government’s mind, but a further erosion on the original stated purpose of the lanes.

seanmarshall.ca

The tragedy of Ontario’s HOV lanes

The HOV lanes on Ontario’s highways have become a mockery of their original stated intent. The Ford government’s latest motorist-friendly action may just be an acknowledgement that ever…
seanmarshall.ca seanmarshall.ca
 
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I have noticed the following RFPs have recently closed for engineering services on MERX, unveiling some information:
Interesting that they are grouping the widenings on either side of the Morriston Bypass. It also appears that the internal planned completion dates for HWY 413 and the Bradford Bypass are sometime in 2032.
 
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