Toronto Ontario Place: New Science Centre | 4s | Province of Ontario | Snøhetta + HPA

It, of course, looks small for what it really should be, especially when so much space is devoted to the lobby atrium on the upper levels.

The old OSC really drew the visitor in, deeper inside and down the ravine. There was a lot of space, but still sections – especially the temporary exhibits – felt cramped. This doesn’t do it for me.
 
nightstreak said:
The Province doesn't own this property (it belongs to the City of Toronto) which is in a protected conservation green zone in the ravine. The Moriyama building itself was designated heritage protected in 2023 so it cannot be demolished. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

From Infrastructure Ontario itself on the limitations of expanding the Ontario Science Centre:

View attachment 717703
via: https://www.infrastructureontario.c...b5/osc-modernization-business-case---2016.pdf

The Province is the tenant and they are required in their lease to give the City of Toronto (the landlord) the option of maintaining the building on site if either party wishes to terminate the lease.

That's not to say that Doug Ford didn't get what he wanted out of this. He pitched an Ontario Science Centre to Ontario Place subway line and then sold the rights to build at Ontario Place to Therme and Live Nation and the rights to develop around the new subway line to private developers. They don't need the Ontario Science Centre lands or building to develop at the immediate intersection surrounding Don Valley Station.

The City of Toronto will inherit the entire Science Centre complex as soon as the lease with the Province is over (2064) but the city can now require an early termination since the Province no longer operates the Science Centre, violating the terms of the lease. The Moriyama building would make an excellent Community Centre for the rapidly expanding neighbourhood.
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Unfortunately, the Ontario Science Centre is not designated. An attempt was made in 2023, but it did not go through. The OSC has been heritage-listed since 2006, but that does not protect it from demolition.

Neither the province nor the city can exit the lease unilaterally, it has to be by mutual agreement of both parties. Basically, meaning by agreement of the premier and the mayor. Only the mayor is up for re-election this year. If the city gets a new mayor who doesn't care about the science centre buildings, the premier gets an ally in his bid to tear down Raymond Moriyama's work.
 
taal said:
Sure, it would have been cheaper, would it have been as iconic ... architecture wise, yes - but location, no. There are so many arguments (not here but in other places) that the science center was meant for schools because it was easier to get too ... I don't see how that can be justification to go one direction or another.

Whether we agree with the implementation there is clearly a desire to turn Ontario Place lands into a year round destination - I would argue what is being done here (completely ignoring the cost side) will likely have a really good chance of accomplishing just that.
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Yeah, I think in general it's not so much of a play towards redeveloping the old OSC (which largely sits on undevelopable land anyways and whose parking lots are far more valuable), but rather a tail wagging the dog situation where the OSC relocation is a relocation of a provincial institution in order to make Ontario Place and Exhbition Place more viable and to make Ford's spa less of a sore thumb sticking out.

That being said, I have read legitimate concerns that the new location is less accessible towards suburban GTA families, which was why the original building was located where it was.

In general, I think the city should be focused more on securing the original OSC buildings to prepare the buildings for a new institution- maybe it's time to consider relocating the ROM's natural sciences collections to the buildings as a new natural history museum + maybe a community centre component?
 
That Ontario Science Centre proposal epitomizes why Toronto isn't taken seriously on the world stage. One of the city's main cultural assets and they submit a modest structure with hospital architecture? It's not that Toronto is too small (Sydney's new subway system) or too poor (Egypt's new national museum). It's the widespread crude utilitarianism in practically everything Toronto does.

If people need reminding, this is what a cultural asset in a major global city looks like:

1772195437948.png

www.dailynews.com

The $1 billion Lucas Museum of Narrative Art will open next September in Exposition Park

“The museum was built on the belief that illustrated storytelling is a universal language,” Lucas said in a statement.
www.dailynews.com www.dailynews.com
 
This seems so misguided and a huge waste of $ considering the cost for repairing the OSC roof was estimated at 40 million! Since this is a done deal efforts should be made to upgrade and repurpose the Raymond Moriyama building. Given its location at E.T. Seton Park, and surrounding ravine and nature, it would be a good location for an ecology centre/museum.. something similar to Montreals Biodome? ..Including a research centre on ecology/sustainability/biophilic design?
 
Transit said:
Unfortunately, the Ontario Science Centre is not designated. An attempt was made in 2023, but it did not go through. The OSC has been heritage-listed since 2006, but that does not protect it from demolition.

Neither the province nor the city can exit the lease unilaterally, it has to be by mutual agreement of both parties. Basically, meaning by agreement of the premier and the mayor. Only the mayor is up for re-election this year. If the city gets a new mayor who doesn't care about the science centre buildings, the premier gets an ally in his bid to tear down Raymond Moriyama's work.
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just to be clear, ford has repeatedly said he doesnt care about the building itself, the city can build a science center if they wish but they will need to spend a couple hundred million to get it up and running.
Which i dont believe anyone in Toronto is willing to pay for.

The most likely case is its going to sit vacant for a decade before someone says "uh its ugly and collapsing on itself" because 0 maintenance was done
 
@AlexBozikovic asked about the facility size calculation over on Bsky.....

They got that number by adding the 40,000ft2 in the Pods, and the Cinesphere to the new building.

Frankly, I can't make that math work in my head, but I also don't have the exact ft2 for Cinesphere.

I'll wager they're including all that wasted space in the bridge structures too.
 
generalcanada said:
just to be clear, ford has repeatedly said he doesnt care about the building itself, the city can build a science center if they wish but they will need to spend a couple hundred million to get it up and running.
Which i dont believe anyone in Toronto is willing to pay for.

The most likely case is its going to sit vacant for a decade before someone says "uh its ugly and collapsing on itself" because 0 maintenance was done
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Actually, Ford said that the city can do anything it wants with the property, except open another science centre.

There is a 20-year suggested repair plan for the building that costs tens of millions of dollars per year at most; it's variable, not hundreds of millions of dollars in years 1 to 3 like for the new build at Ontario Place.
 
Northern Light said:
@AlexBozikovic asked about the facility size calculation over on Bsky.....

They got that number by adding the 40,000ft2 in the Pods, and the Cinesphere to the new building.

Frankly, I can't make that math work in my head, but I also don't have the exact ft2 for Cinesphere.

I'll wager they're including all that wasted space in the bridge structures too.
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Sure but the science center's 560K similarly includes a movie theatre albeit smaller and a lot of wasted space as well. I'm willing to wager both will have a similar amount of wasted space making the ~ 40% smaller figure accurate.
 
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