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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

The North Shore still ships a certain amount of aggregate....but by boat. Rail isn't going to capture that traffic.

- Paul
 
lenaitch said:
There is very little any government can do to encourage that short of literally paying them to be there. Heavy industry wants to be near raw materials and/or market (and an employable level of population). Forestry certainly isn't in an expansionist era. There hasn't been much in the way of mining since copper around Bruce Mines in the 1800s. Even when Elliot Lake was a mining town it wasn't rail connected. Mining only needs rail when its output is measured in tons, not pounds or ounces.
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The governments do that in southern ON with all the grants and subsidies. So,if they wanted to, they could. For example, a battery plant that was going to use resources from the Tri town area could have been located near those mines. It is thinks like that that I speak of, and if we had a government that did not see the need to just support the population in Southern ON something like a battery plant would have been located next to the mine they are getting the minerals from.
 
crs1026 said:
The North Shore still ships a certain amount of aggregate....but by boat. Rail isn't going to capture that traffic.

- Paul
Click to expand...
Ya, Ontario Trap Rock is a specialty type of aggregate. It's not rail connected and most of their product goes to the US by ship.

micheal_can said:
The governments do that in southern ON with all the grants and subsidies. So,if they wanted to, they could. For example, a battery plant that was going to use resources from the Tri town area could have been located near those mines. It is thinks like that that I speak of, and if we had a government that did not see the need to just support the population in Southern ON something like a battery plant would have been located next to the mine they are getting the minerals from.
Click to expand...
All the grants and subsidies in the world cannot make a company locate somewhere that makes no business sense or it simply doesn't want to. One component of those batteries will come from Timiskaming (one out of how many, I don't know). That's like saying a steel plant could go next to an iron mine (does that happen anywhere?) or Toyota would build a plant in Chapleau if we only gave them enough money.

Governments have a history of giving money to businesses that have little to no viability. Often, they fold and taxpayers are left holding the empty bag.
 
lenaitch said:
All the grants and subsidies in the world cannot make a company locate somewhere that makes no business sense or it simply doesn't want to. One component of those batteries will come from Timiskaming (one out of how many, I don't know). That's like saying a steel plant could go next to an iron mine (does that happen anywhere?) or Toyota would build a plant in Chapleau if we only gave them enough money.

Governments have a history of giving money to businesses that have little to no viability. Often, they fold and taxpayers are left holding the empty bag.
Click to expand...
Didn't you say it needs to be near the resource to be viable and then now you are saying that all the money cannot make them move where it makes no sense?
 
micheal_can said:
Didn't you say it needs to be near the resource to be viable and then now you are saying that all the money cannot make them move where it makes no sense?
Click to expand...
I said proximity to resources is one factor. Proximity to market is another, along with a labour force. There are other factors as well, such as availability of power, depending on the nature of the industry.. The Saguenay/Lac St. Jean region of Quebec isn't the centre of aluminum smelting in Canada because it is surrounded by aluminum mines; it's because of lots of cheap electricity.

According to websites that are smarter than I, Cobalt accounts for approximately 4% of the mineral weight of a typical automotive EV battery (plus the metal casing and other bits), and they are continuing to research ways to reduce that even further, so what is available in the Timiskaming Shores area is only a small component of the battery.

In addition, companies want a viable workforce basically ready to go. The VW battery plant is expected to produce 3000 direct jobs. The population of Elgin and Middlesex counties is about 600,000. Temiskaming Shores has a population of around 9,000. Roll in Cobalt, Englehart and the surrounding area and you get maybe 12,000. According to StatsCan, the Temiskaming Shores entire labour force is a little over 4,400. No company in their right mind would propose a plant of that size into a community that simply can't support it. Even if the argument is 'people will flock to the area for the work', how long for the housing, schools, water, etc. etc. to catch up? Ten years? Maybe? Most of it borne by the taxpayer.

Once again it seems I am getting sucked into what amounts to a fantasy thread. Yes, the Ontario government could buy up all the rail lines in Ontario and run daily passenger trains all over the province. That way they wouldn't beholden to freight traffic. Yes . . .they could, I suppose. I concede the possibility.
 
lenaitch said:
I said proximity to resources is one factor. Proximity to market is another, along with a labour force. There are other factors as well, such as availability of power, depending on the nature of the industry.. The Saguenay/Lac St. Jean region of Quebec isn't the centre of aluminum smelting in Canada because it is surrounded by aluminum mines; it's because of lots of cheap electricity.

According to websites that are smarter than I, Cobalt accounts for approximately 4% of the mineral weight of a typical automotive EV battery (plus the metal casing and other bits), and they are continuing to research ways to reduce that even further, so what is available in the Timiskaming Shores area is only a small component of the battery.

In addition, companies want a viable workforce basically ready to go. The VW battery plant is expected to produce 3000 direct jobs. The population of Elgin and Middlesex counties is about 600,000. Temiskaming Shores has a population of around 9,000. Roll in Cobalt, Englehart and the surrounding area and you get maybe 12,000. According to StatsCan, the Temiskaming Shores entire labour force is a little over 4,400. No company in their right mind would propose a plant of that size into a community that simply can't support it. Even if the argument is 'people will flock to the area for the work', how long for the housing, schools, water, etc. etc. to catch up? Ten years? Maybe? Most of it borne by the taxpayer.

Once again it seems I am getting sucked into what amounts to a fantasy thread. Yes, the Ontario government could buy up all the rail lines in Ontario and run daily passenger trains all over the province. That way they wouldn't beholden to freight traffic. Yes . . .they could, I suppose. I concede the possibility.
Click to expand...
I was not trying to draw anyone n. Point I was trying to make is that if there is a viable industry that could be put along the HCR, then it would help support the need for the railway.
 
This is interesting. As is the appearance of an ONR locomotive on its way to the TMC.

Get ready for some road testing up north.

- Paul

www.linkedin.com

The Northlander in action performing some test runs on the Oakville subdivision in Mississauga Ontario. I am looking forward to taking this train to my hometown Timmins Ontario. | Steven Patriquin

The Northlander in action performing some test runs on the Oakville subdivision in Mississauga Ontario. I am looking forward to taking this train to my hometown Timmins Ontario.
www.linkedin.com www.linkedin.com
 
crs1026 said:
This is interesting. As is the appearance of an ONR locomotive on its way to the TMC.

Get ready for some road testing up north.

- Paul

www.linkedin.com

The Northlander in action performing some test runs on the Oakville subdivision in Mississauga Ontario. I am looking forward to taking this train to my hometown Timmins Ontario. | Steven Patriquin

The Northlander in action performing some test runs on the Oakville subdivision in Mississauga Ontario. I am looking forward to taking this train to my hometown Timmins Ontario.
www.linkedin.com www.linkedin.com
Click to expand...
It may never see those speeds again!
 
crs1026 said:
This is interesting. As is the appearance of an ONR locomotive on its way to the TMC.

Get ready for some road testing up north.

- Paul

www.linkedin.com

The Northlander in action performing some test runs on the Oakville subdivision in Mississauga Ontario. I am looking forward to taking this train to my hometown Timmins Ontario. | Steven Patriquin

The Northlander in action performing some test runs on the Oakville subdivision in Mississauga Ontario. I am looking forward to taking this train to my hometown Timmins Ontario.
www.linkedin.com www.linkedin.com
Click to expand...

Not sure why an engine would need to be sent south.
That is a nice thing to see though.


lenaitch said:
It may never see those speeds again!
Click to expand...
It may on the Bala Sub....
 
NorthernTracks said:
For the first time since the end of January, the Sudbury-White River train completed a round trip journey. As stated by VIA Rail, the baggage car remains out of service. Hoping for all affected passengers that this train remains reliable for the foreseeable future.
Click to expand...
Any word on the problem?
 
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