The Future of subway and rapid transit in the GTA

[duty free]

At least the next steps are headed in that direction - Line 1 to Richmond Hill, Line 2 to Sheppard, hopefully Line 4 to Sheppard West and the Queen's Quay East streetcar. Not to mention transforming GO rail into something more closely resembling rapid transit.

We don't need 2 to 3 times as many subway corridors if the existing infrastructure can be maximized.

Oh I have bad news for you, unfortunately we're well on our way to doubling the existing subway system.

Line 1 - 38.4 km
Line 2 - 26.2 km
Line 4 - 5.5 km
TOTAL - 70.1 km

OL = 15.6 km
SSE = 7.8 km
YSE = 8 km

Line 5 (tunnelled/grade separated portion) - 10 km
Line 5 West - 9.2 km
Line 5 Renforth to YYZ ≈ 4 km

Line 4 East to Scarborough Centre ≈ 7.5 km
Line 4 West to Sheppard West ≈ 4.5 km
Ontario Line North to Steeles ≈ 10.6 km

Add that up and the system just more than doubled and yes we need all of it.

That brings us above 140 km, which is the bare minimum in my opinion even if you were to add GO RER (Trillium Network), a fully optimized streetcar system and many BRT routes through out the city.

If we had what is listed above then you're right that would probably be enough for our existing population.

140 km for the TTC subway system is mostly already being constructed and planned. Admittedly going beyond that enters fantasy land, but once you start thinking about other potential future projects you get over 210 km easily, which would be tripling what currently exists.

UPX as a metro line
OL Line West to YYZ via the Queensway
Line 2 North to Steeles or Markham Centre
Line 2 West to Sherway
Line 2 West to Square One
Line 4 West to Jane
Line 4 West to YYZ
Jane Metro Line
Dufferin Metro Line

TLDR a 140+ km TTC subway system is already happening and getting to 210 km isn't inconceivable.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I was thinking about how many additional trip options will be opened up tomorrow with the Crosstown. It really is exciting times even if performance of the LRT ends up with some disappointing day-one reactions.

It is quite literally a game-changer.

 

[afransen]

I was thinking about how many additional trip options will be opened up tomorrow with the Crosstown. It really is exciting times even if performance of the LRT ends up with some disappointing day-one reactions.

It is quite literally a game-changer.

I don't see it if it ends up being slower than the bus

 

[picard102]

I just checked a trip I would make when I had a car, out at Bermondsey starting from Wilson and Bathurst.

Car = 20-40m.
Bus = 1h 3m.
Line 1 + 5 = 1h 14m.

This sounds dreadful for 15 years and 12 billion dollars.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Recently I found an old slide deck from the aughts positing a 35-minute trip from Jane to Kennedy. Evidently they thought they were building something completely other than what finally happened.

 

[nfitz]

I just checked a trip I would make when I had a car, out at Bermondsey starting from Wilson and Bathurst.

Car = 20-40m.
Bus = 1h 3m.
Line 1 + 5 = 1h 14m.

This sounds dreadful for 15 years and 12 billion dollars.

Checking Google maps for 8:15 AM on Monday (tomorrow) I get 46 minutes (including 6 minutes walking) on LIne 1+5 (and 96 bus to Yorkdale station) (of which 19 minute is on Line 5). Presumably this will be 2 or 3 minutes faster once Line 5 fully opens.

But the best I can see last Monday at 8:15 am is 52 minutes on the 996 express bus plus the notoriously unreliable infrequent 91 Woodbine bus - so probaby not the best choice of route.

I'm not sure where 74 minutes comes from. Perhaps there's an excessive walking time?

Google maps does have it quirks though - compare the walking time below for the 96 vs 996 buses at Yorkdale station!

 

[picard102]

I gave approximate locations, for a trip at noon. Using your 8am this is the result I get.

 

[nfitz]

I gave approximate locations, for a trip at noon. Using your 8am this is the result I get.

View attachment 714066View attachment 714067View attachment 714068

With 32 minutes of walking? From Bathurst/Wilson to Bermondsey/Sloan/Eglinton?

My trips above had 1 minute of walking at Eglinton station.

Ah, if I force it a bit with options, I can get it to walk 21 minutes to Wilson station - for a 62 minute total travel time. But I'm not sure how to get it up to 32 minutes of walking time.

But if you are going to take the 996 past York Mills station, why not just get off at York Mills for the faster subway trip? The trips taking the bus to York Mills range from 44 to 49 minutes (depending which bus).

How do you find the 91 bus? I've taken it northbound to York Mills at AM peak before if I'd see one at Woodbine station; but running only every 15 minutes, I never risked it going south (at PM peak, when it runs every 18 minutes). I used to work near York Mills and Don Mills road, and live near Woodbine station.

 

[picard102]

From Bathurst/Wilson to Bermondsey/Sloan/Eglinton?

Again, from locations near those intersections.

I personally would never take the bus to York Mills when I can walk to Wilson faster.

 

[nfitz]

Ah, @picard102 - I think I figured it out.

I think you may have deselected "Bus" and set the destination to the (Hydro One) Bermondsey Transmission Station.

Hmm, I wonder if that, and the nearby Bermondsey waste transfer station was why they changed the name to Sloane station.