Alto - High Speed Rail (Toronto-Quebec City)

[jcam]

It alleges that the government's intend ia to dump legacy VIA on the provinces.

We can now have GO, the Northlander, the Eastlander, then maybe the Southwestlander.

 

[crs1026]

But wouldn't using the lakeshore route; i.e. CN Kingston sub, etc., either in whole or part, be challenged by ROW capacity and ownership? Shoehorning at least two dedicated high speed tracks, stations, infrastructure, stations, etc. would seem to be no mean feat. If not 'the corridor', the closer you get to the lake, the higher the land cost (in general).

I wasn't meaning to imply that the line follow the CN or CPKC ROW, or be joined to it. The route could be anywhere parallel to the shoreline, maybe even 10 miles inland.... just somewhere in the area south of the rougher terrain up past Rice Lake.

I would expect the land costs might be higher, but construction costs might be lower. How the two offset each other, I don't pretend to have data on.

My point was - Peterborough only looked good because there was a right of way already assembled and (roughly) graded. Once one decides to go greenfield, Peterborough is no more compelling than anywhere south of that. (There are some lakes that would force the route to go well to the south, of course.)

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

Corridor mapping now live.

Shaping the Canada of tomorrow with high-speed rail

The train we need Alto’s aim is to build the country’s first high-speed rail network that will run at speeds of 300 km/h or more to efficiently connect major cities in the Toronto–Québec City corridor. Fast, reliable and frequent: Alto will reinvent the way we travel

en.consultation.altotrain.ca

 

[legoswmonkey]

If they can get Ottawa's station downtown I will name my firstborn Cadence

 

[Northern Light]

Corridor mapping now live.

Shaping the Canada of tomorrow with high-speed rail

The train we need Alto’s aim is to build the country’s first high-speed rail network that will run at speeds of 300 km/h or more to efficiently connect major cities in the Toronto–Québec City corridor. Fast, reliable and frequent: Alto will reinvent the way we travel

en.consultation.altotrain.ca

From the above: Ontario Corridors under consideration.

Quebec Corridors:

@crs1026 will be duly amused to knot Peterborough makes the cut in all options.

 

[ShonTron]

The corridors are wide enough not to encourage land speculation (in the hopes or fear of expropriation) yet narrow enough in places to get a sense of how a route could look like.

It also makes it really clear that a downtown Toronto terminus – Union Station or proximate – is being planned, putting aside speculation about a Summerhill or Pearson terminus.

That the route would cross the Ottawa River near Hawkesbury is no surprise either, basically following parts of the old CP M&O subdivision and the old Canadian Northern route into the north side of Montreal.

Enough of interest without any fine details.

 

[lenaitch]

Interesting from the perspective of the most recent discussion that the Ontario study area still seems to include Peterborough, then provides two corridor options towards Ottawa. There's a lot of geology and other factors involved and it would be interesting to know what the logic of two potential corridors are. The Frontenac Arch ('Canadian Shield') is only marginally narrower to the south and its not like there are any communities they trying to hit (or avoid).

 

[generalcanada]

Re-use of Via maintenance facility?

 

[Northern Light]

Interesting from the perspective of the most recent discussion that the Ontario study area still seems to include Peterborough, then provides two corridor options towards Ottawa. There's a lot of geology and other factors involved and it would be interesting to know what the logic of two potential corridors are. The Frontenac Arch ('Canadian Shield') is only marginally narrower to the south and its not like there are any communities they trying to hit (or avoid).

The southerly option begins by following an old rail corridor/current trail south-east. Its easy to see:

The trail continues to the south-east I haven't marked it all, just provided a starting point, I am not suggesting the southern option, if pursued would literally use that trail, but the corridor is centred on it.

You can follow it to Madoc Junction. (roughly). Now after that, I'd use the map below to suss out your next move:

 

[crs1026]

While the Alto map defines fairly wide corridors of interest, a look at the lakes north of Kingston towards Perth certainly makes me think that there are only a few options through that region, and likely connecting to the old CN line from Napanee.

I imagine there are also pinch points on the northern option, so it may not be as wide open as that broad band implies.

As noted, there may be good reason to position the choice ambiguously, to avoid having the broad consultations tainted by land speculation or specific lobbying or local objections....... but the options may boil down to a few fairly obvious choices.

- Paul

 

[chrisw]

I didn't realize how much discussion they added on top of the map. They key themes have important information.

 

[chrisw]

The Alto high-speed rail network: Designed for performance, with safety in mind

1. High-speed rail components High-speed rail has proved itself worldwide, including in France, Japan and Spain. These networks are known for being efficient, safe and for improving connectivity between cities. Alto draws on these models by considering Canadian

en.consultation.altotrain.ca

They mention a minimum curve radius of 7km. In China that is good enough for 350 km/h.

They're using ballast but maybe that was expected for the lower capital cost.

No text, but maybe noteworthy that these are single level trains unlike bilevel as suggested by Mr. Schabas

 

[McGillicuddy]

From the above: Ontario Corridors under consideration.

View attachment 708874

Good grief, that southern alignment. Imagine coming that close to Kingston and not stopping there.

On the plus side, the city would instantly become a major producer of salt.

 

[urbanclient]

The Alto high-speed rail network: Designed for performance, with safety in mind

1. High-speed rail components High-speed rail has proved itself worldwide, including in France, Japan and Spain. These networks are known for being efficient, safe and for improving connectivity between cities. Alto draws on these models by considering Canadian

en.consultation.altotrain.ca

They mention a minimum curve radius of 7km. In China that is good enough for 350 km/h.

They're using ballast but maybe that was expected for the lower capital cost.

No text, but maybe noteworthy that these are single level trains unlike bilevel as suggested by Mr. Schabas

350 km/h operational top speeds on ballasted track would be a world record. Also I am pretty sure ballast flies and hits the undercarriage too much above 320 km/h. There is also a big aversion to scope creep on this thread, not that the opinions of forum dwellers should take precedence over Alto staff and consultants.

Good grief, that southern alignment. Imagine coming that close to Kingston and not stopping there.

On the plus side, the city would instantly become a major producer of salt.

They could call the station Kingston North, like the HSR stations on the outskirts of town that are common in China. Could spur development north of Kingston.

 

[mburrrrr]

I like an elevated train to the Union Station “surrounding area” just east at Church St.
Two elevated red - rail lines?
Blue - Station?
Green P for “airport/train” parking or a terminal building. Lots of spare capacity.
Bring the UP to Yonge St. or walk down track #3 and bypass Union traffic. Unless a GO train arrives.
250m to GO bus. Path on south side to CIBC Phase 1
350 m to GO train. Path at The Backstage to CIBC phase 2
500m to Union Station train.
Finish the Path to Sugar Wharf and One Yonge.
Complete Church St underpass.