Bojaxs
Senior Member
Seems to be a running trend with all these LRT's they're building in Ontario, eh?
micheal_can
Senior Member
Search out the construction of the Skytrain in Vancouver.
urbanclient
Active Member
God forbid Hurontario/Mississauga/the GTA grows large enough to need a metro down one of its densest corridors.
It's so funny with these delayed projects in Line 5 and Line 10, that when they started construction an LRT opened that very day would've made sense. But by the time the line is actually opened, the density would've grown to a point where full-grade separation clearly becomes the optimal choice.
To top it all off, these projects are further screwed by DBFOM P3 procurement peddled by incompetent politicians and bureaucrats who are naively unaware that 50 to 100% delays and 50% cost overruns are the norm now. Or maybe they just like handing fat stacks of taxpayer money to their buddies at the consortium.
goodcitywhenfinished
Active Member
It would probably be finished by now.
Below are photos of the Surrey-Langley Skytrain in BC, which began construction just barely one year ago in November 2024.
I will remind everyone that Hurontario has been under construction since 2020.
Remember, when anyone says that surface LRT is the quickest method of rapid transit construction they are straight up lying.
Elevated metro on a wide ROW like Hurontario can be done without widespread utility relocation and road rebuilding. I’m willing to bet a properly designed elevated metro would have been cheaper than this current LRT project.
Amare
Senior Member
Hurontario is going to be a mess, in that the idiotic loop is going to screw it's operation. The thing wont be quick to begin with, and with the loop there's going to be trains looping through it. We dont know what the service design is going to look like, but knowing the stupidity that goes on in this province i'm willing to bet that there's going to be no form of through-service down Hurontario.
This line isnt going to get drivers out from their cars, the ridership will come from those who have to rely on it.
As for the P3 DMFOM scheme, 90% of us here know that the whole thing is a cooked and useless model that does not work. Unfortunately our idiot political leaders are delinquents who are content with lining pockets of private consortiums because they cant understand how to do basic arithmetic, and they dont understand how contracts work.
Ontario really is the pioneer of pissing away boatloads of money, and getting the absolute minimum value for the money spent. When it comes to building transit infrastructure, we have no idea what we're doing.
drum118
Superstar
Dec 17
@Dan416 i see they closed the sidewalk last week again with no work taking place on Thursday when I drove by it. Have they open it up or will we see the standard no closures signs and let riders be late for the Go trains and do a long walk to bypass the area??
North of Burnhamorpe saw ties either been off loaded or be loaded which is odd considering the area was poured a few weeks ago.
Trackwork not completed at Sq One Dr for some unknown reason but the rest is ready to be pour.
Trackwork between Elm and Central Pkwy still waiting to be poured in place. Between Elm and Matthew Gates, trackwork is poured in place.
Matthew Gates and Burnhamorpe, trackwork waiting splicing and form work so the tracks are totally encase in concrete for the current and future platform. Track bracing is also needed and not sure if tracks are level and align. All tracks are wrapped to be encase in concrete.
@Dan416 i see they closed the sidewalk last week again with no work taking place on Thursday when I drove by it. Have they open it up or will we see the standard no closures signs and let riders be late for the Go trains and do a long walk to bypass the area??
North of Burnhamorpe saw ties either been off loaded or be loaded which is odd considering the area was poured a few weeks ago.
Trackwork not completed at Sq One Dr for some unknown reason but the rest is ready to be pour.
Trackwork between Elm and Central Pkwy still waiting to be poured in place. Between Elm and Matthew Gates, trackwork is poured in place.
Matthew Gates and Burnhamorpe, trackwork waiting splicing and form work so the tracks are totally encase in concrete for the current and future platform. Track bracing is also needed and not sure if tracks are level and align. All tracks are wrapped to be encase in concrete.
drum118
Superstar
After watching the mess for all 3 LRT lines, I have to say an elevated line was the way to go as well all of them would be in operation now.to a few years ago.
The loop is a huge mistake and only will keep drivers in their cars than use the system and have to thank the city for this screw up.
Bojaxs
Senior Member
That was my thinking while driving along Hurontario the other day. It's so wide and there are so many towers being built along it. An elevated metro built along Hurontario st. would have made the whole MCC area look like Burnaby or Richmond B.C., minus the mountainous backdrop.
Something I just found out today. Surrey, B.C. voted against a planned LRT in favour of SkyTrain expansion.
Metro Vancouver mayors suspend Surrey LRT, vote to study SkyTrain
Metro Vancouver mayors voted to suspend construction on Surrey’s LRT line and take steps towards a SkyTrain to Langley at a tense meeting Thursday.
www.ctvnews.ca
Imagine having an elevated line connecting to both the LSW and Milton GO lines. Then have it go underground in Brampton to connect to the Kitchener line. That'll get people out their cars!!! That's why we're not building it....
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urbanclient
Active Member
Incoming pro-LRT comments saying hOW coulD you POssIblY JustifY a metro on Hurontario / Eglinton, while conveniently forgetting about the rest of the planet and Vancouver, which is sending metro deep into comparatively sparsely populated Surrey and Langley.
Langley City Centre is effectively 50 km from downtown Vancouver. Mississauga City Centre is 25 km from downtown Toronto.
These muppets on all levels keep drinking the Metrolinx kool aid that apparently the largest city in Canada by far does not deserve more than a single new metro line in 30+ years. System justification theory in practice for politicians and the complacent public. Line 4 Sheppard 2002 - Line 3 Ontario 2035? It's already been leaked by a prominent Urban Toronto 'superstar' that that P3 POS has been ludicrously delayed. And Line 4 is effectively a small spur line, not a real line. Toronto is somewhere between nearly double and 50% bigger than Montreal's population for a similar area. Toronto is close to 3 times the size of Vancouver's population. Without being overly pedantic, how can anyone justify both Vancouver and Montreal having a larger metro system than Toronto.
Langley City Centre is effectively 50 km from downtown Vancouver. Mississauga City Centre is 25 km from downtown Toronto.
These muppets on all levels keep drinking the Metrolinx kool aid that apparently the largest city in Canada by far does not deserve more than a single new metro line in 30+ years. System justification theory in practice for politicians and the complacent public. Line 4 Sheppard 2002 - Line 3 Ontario 2035? It's already been leaked by a prominent Urban Toronto 'superstar' that that P3 POS has been ludicrously delayed. And Line 4 is effectively a small spur line, not a real line. Toronto is somewhere between nearly double and 50% bigger than Montreal's population for a similar area. Toronto is close to 3 times the size of Vancouver's population. Without being overly pedantic, how can anyone justify both Vancouver and Montreal having a larger metro system than Toronto.
Line 6's fiasco has transcended Canadian social media. We are a global laughing stock. And likely will continue to be with Line 5 and Line 10. What do you think a tourist thinks when they get on "Line 10" expecting a metro, only to find out it's a low floor tram.
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drum118
Superstar
The big different between Line 6 and 10 is the fact the stops are further apart with less traffic lights and to have transit priority signals on day one.
What is the logical in having a (Light) metro on line 10 that will see 150,000 riders by 2040-50 and seeing 35,000 on opening day??
The current mayor wanted it to be a subway like a fair number of people.
urbanclient
Active Member
Your premise of 35,000 daily ridership is flawed, which is why your conclusion is shaky at best. Hurontario connects 2 GO train stations and the largest CBD outside Toronto proper and the largest mall in Ontario. To claim 35,000 per day for the denser, longer Hurontario, while the province claims 51,000 for the shorter, suburban Line 6 doesn't make sense at all.
It's possible you mistakenly think Canada is still a country of 37 million, and Mississauga only has 700,000 people.
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drum118
Superstar
Have you check the current ridership between 502, 103, 17 and 2 lately as it is down from 32,000?? Cannot use the full 502 numbers as it is for the full route with no numbers south of Steeles.
Mississauga is close to 800,000 with Brampton ahead of Mississauga by some 10,000's.
urbanclient
Active Member
I don't think you are familiar with the concept of latent transit demand. Line 6's and the 36 bus' ridership is driven by Humber College students, with low latent demand from the surrounding low density communities. A fast and reliable Hurontario LRT or metro will take many more drivers off the road. Not to mention enable residents along Milton and Lakeshore West to commute to or visit Square One. One can't just take bus ridership and assume the same ridership for higher order transit. Otherwise, how did Paris T9 take part of the 56,000 per day 183 bus route and turn it to 100,000 per weekday? If Hurontario sucks like Line 6 does right now, then obviously it won't capture much latent transit demand.
"How can the same contingent of Urban Toronto members be defending LRT in low density suburbs [Finch West] and high density arterial thoroughfares (Hurontario and Eglinton) at the same time? LRTs are best suited for middle density that is not high enough to necessitate a subway."
Feel free to ask an LLM what is supposed to happen to total transit ridership when higher order transit is built on an existing bus corridor.
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SR95
New Member
The only reason I can think of that an LRT would be preferred over an elevated metro on Hurontario is to take lanes away from cars, which in turn makes the pedestrian/cyclist experience down the corridor less hostile. I know you can still narrow the road with an elevated metro running above it, but good luck making that argument to nimbyville which describes the vast majority of the 905.
Also, if this line starts with TSP on day 1, and if (this is a big if) it gets an "express" service that bypasses Sq1 - then I think I'd consider it a success.
Also, if this line starts with TSP on day 1, and if (this is a big if) it gets an "express" service that bypasses Sq1 - then I think I'd consider it a success.
afransen
Senior Member
And it's not like Hurontario isn't very wide and not exactly an aesthetic masterpiece to be tarnished with a SkyTrain like line. And even the pushbox around Port Credit could have been avoided...