News   Dec 15, 2025
Six-Tower Transit Oriented Community Proposed at Guildwood GO
 185     0 
News   Dec 15, 2025
News Roundup for December 15, 2025
 284     0 
News   Dec 15, 2025
Heated Rivalry S1 E1
 616     1 

Alto - High Speed Rail (Toronto-Quebec City)

mcbg1 said:
It's still absolutely insane that the first leg is only starting in 4 years (if all goes well) and that construction for it alone will take 10 years (if all goes well). Canada is a joke nation,
Click to expand...

Not at all insane. Sure it can be faster, but that is a perfectly reasonable planning and design phase for a project this size. We have streetscape projects in Toronto that take longer to plan and coordinate (looking at you Yonge and John Streets)

And there are hard and fast limits to how quickly one can push for a project like this. For example, gantry cranes for viaducts are scheduled for projects all over the world and have a lead time of 2-3 years.

Sure we can always spend more money to manufacture our own gantries, TBMs, etc but that inflates project cost even more.
 
My 2 cents....

1) I called it. They are doing the easiest section first.

2) The graphic is odd, but right now, till an official release is done, speculation will continue.

3) 4 years is along wait till shovels in the ground. I wish they were more open as to it taking 4 years to get those shovels in the ground. I am assuming things like road works, utility moving are all after that 4 year start date.

4) is that construction date a lofty date that they will change to something sooner to look good? With all the messes, that could have the public happier about it.
 
mcbg1 said:
It's still absolutely insane that the first leg is only starting in 4 years (if all goes well) and that construction for it alone will take 10 years (if all goes well). Canada is a joke nation,
Click to expand...
If they start building today and the route they rush to get shovelling gets jammed up in a legal struggle for years because a farmer doesn't take the cash or agree to a land swap, you'll end up just like California: desperately pissing money into the wind because they immediately ran into legal and regulatory obstacles. They now have plenty of time to get the route right, purchase properties on timelines that match human patterns, and ramp up rollout with a smart initial segment.
 
Does anyone know why more stops in Quebec than Ontario and why Laval? If one suburb should have been included it’s Mississauga being much bigger.
 
kEiThZ said:
Really sucks for Ottawa if they skip Dorval. That connection would have substantially reduced air traffic out of Ottawa. Both connecting Ottawa-Montreal flights and simply direct flights out of Ottawa. But I will concede that there's probably some business traffic to Laval and the possibility for split service that terminates in Montreal and a branch that continues from Laval eastward.
Click to expand...
Bypassing Dorval would hurt one of their stated goals of reducing shorthaul flights in the corridor. Direct connections to airports would go along way to facilitate that.
Also, it's interesting none of their official news releases mention Laval in Phase One. This could all just be from an overzelous Quebec MP trying to apply pressure on the project group thru leaks.

mcbg1 said:
It's still absolutely insane that the first leg is only starting in 4 years (if all goes well) and that construction for it alone will take 10 years (if all goes well). Canada is a joke nation,
Click to expand...
Rushing to put shovels in the ground before substantial design and engineering work is complete is how so many transit projects run into trouble in this country, and also one of the big factors derailing CAHSR. So the stated timeline to construction is actually a good thing IMO.
 
ownthesky said:
If they start building today and the route they rush to get shovelling gets jammed up in a legal struggle for years because a farmer doesn't take the cash or agree to a land swap, you'll end up just like California: desperately pissing money into the wind because they immediately ran into legal and regulatory obstacles. They now have plenty of time to get the route right, purchase properties on timelines that match human patterns, and ramp up rollout with a smart initial segment.
Click to expand...
I get planning is a big task but once everything is clear, construction should not take 10 years. China and Japan would do it in 2.
 
mcbg1 said:
I get planning is a big task but once everything is clear, construction should not take 10 years. China and Japan would do it in 2.
Click to expand...
They most definitely would not. The Chuo Shinkansen in Japan started construction in 2014 and is not scheduled to open until 2035.

Even China’s HSR lines typically take at least 4-5 years and that’s with massive state capacity and entire divisions of seasoned rail builders who move project to project quickly and with tonnes of expertise.
 
innsertnamehere said:
They most definitely would not. The Chuo Shinkansen in Japan started construction in 2014 and is not scheduled to open until 2035.

Even China’s HSR lines typically take at least 4-5 years and that’s with massive state capacity and entire divisions of seasoned rail builders who move project to project quickly and with tonnes of expertise.
Click to expand...
Hahaha I think @mcbg1 is being hyperbolic. 2 years construction for a 180-200 km Ottawa - Montreal is really pushing it even for Chinese CREC and CRCC (yes, China has two somewhat competing companies). I am not aware of any 200 km project that took 2 years of construction.

Here is one example for reference, 292 km in 6 years. Get rid of the overbuilt stations, probably cut it down to 5 years easily; but this is China and they want rail stations larger than airport terminals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chengdu–Chongqing_high-speed_railway
 
canucks2030 said:
Does anyone know why more stops in Quebec than Ontario and why Laval? If one suburb should have been included it’s Mississauga being much bigger.
Click to expand...

I have no inside information, but if the long term plan involves running north of the Mountain, both to Ottawa and to Quebec City - then Alto would likely have to acquire the entire G+W ex-CP line - which happens to run thru Laval. I can't see Alto cherrypicking which miles of line they intend to acquire, since any acquisition impacts the entire operation.

And yeah, once it's on the map, somebody may have assumed a stop or terminal there, which may not actually be the plan.

- Paul
 
reinventingthewheel said:
New Paige Saunders for CBC:
Click to expand...

The most interesting detail of this report (aside from the suggestions about how the project should be structured) was the pen scribbles on the maps... which clearly showed some appreciation for some of the routing options and actual trackage especially thru Montreal.

If it's not a clever hint, it's certainly a sign that the reporter did some detailed discussion about options and where a HSR line might be proposed. Definitely not a newbie reporter mistaking roads for tracks etc.

- Paul
 
416InTrouble said:
Guys - it’s going to terminate at Summerhill and the LCBO becomes the station. Mark my words.
Click to expand...

If the sports book can figure out a parlay that adds in the opening date for Montreal-Ottawa, the location of the Montreal terminal, and maybe the opening date for TTC Crosstown, I have some dollars ready.

- Paul
 
The $80-90BN budget is a dream. Metrolinx is going to spend $30BN on 15.8km of Ontario line. How will 900km+ cost only 3x more when they’ll literally need to build hundreds of bridges? Gotta love Gov estimates!!
 
sixrings said:
The cost of driving will only go down in 15 years time. Perhaps less people will have cars because of the cost of ownership and insurance but gas will no longer be the stumbling block.

Paul. I don’t mean to be combative. I just can’t see this getting votes and I’m confused about the need. When I take rail the most frustrating thing is sharing the line with the freight trains. This is the problem far more than the speed because it slows down the train and they can never accurately say when you will get there. I grew up with toy trains. I love trains. I took a train to New York for our honeymoon. I just don’t think it actually moves the needle. And ultimately I think it’s a promise I don’t want to believe in which will ultimately be killed. As an advocate of transit city that ruined a lot of faith I have in this government and their promises versus their actual cheque writing.
Click to expand...
Silly estimation. The cost of owning a car is 2-3x what it was 20 years and that’s not about to change
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top