Laneway Housing and Garden Suites

[3Dementia]

I admit I was too lazy to check back through the thread... so forgive any duplicates. A few I like including some posted by @Ward8 somewhere:

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Ward8

Ward8

www.bsnarchitects.com

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Cute laneway celebrity spotting story from 20 years ago:

My wife and I were living on Aberdeen Avenue (north of Carlton, just west of Parliament) in our brand-new, glorious 4 storey faux Victorian/loft-style home with a little garden out front (surrounded by a wrought iron fence of course)... that also had a huge roof-top (5th floor) garden terrace 40 feet long above the tree canopy, with SW views of the entire downtown skyline.

But I digress. The story: I was sitting out front in my little garden one sunny Saturday when a woman (40-ish) and a teenage girl in sunglasses and a hoodie were standing next door looking at the unit next to us that was up for sale. The woman asked me who the realtor because they were interested in having a look. I gave her the realtor's number but no answer so they were visibly disappointed.

I said "You can have a look my place if you like... the lay-outs are pretty much identical". So I gave the woman and the shy teenager the full tour all the way up to the rooftop garden. When the tour ended (they loved it), we chatted a while outside my front door as 4 tweens walked by, stopped, gasped open-mouthed ... and then inched by us walking backwards in disbelief.

Then I had my "aha" moment. The shy teenager removed her sunglasses and with a wistful smile said "it happens... a lot".

The Laneway Story - finally getting to the point: so Avril Lavigne and her Mom eventually checked out the place next door but the "Skater Girl" decided instead to buy a laneway home a block east (appropriately on "Broadcast Lane" I believe).

The Lavignes were aiming for max privacy I guess... but despite the incognito clothing choices, she was easily spotted wandering around the nabe by every single Cabbagetown tween worth their salt. Then she met Chad and moved to L.A. FIN

Guess this was a rather than a story.

 

[goodcitywhenfinished]

So I know small scale laneway housing has been on the rise in Toronto, but I am curious if there has been any discussion or movement towards laneway apartment buildings?

I am thinking the typology usually found in Japan, Korea, Latin America, and South America as per the example below: (this example is obviously quite dramatic, but I'm picturing something more in the range of 4-6 stories)

project details here


I think that these types of building could really be the perfect compromise for much of Toronto's victorian, heritage protected inner city. Many of these buildings are no wider than many of the garage plots behind most victorian stand alone structures in the inner city.

I understand that overly cautious building codes in Canada might be the culprit here. These examples from East Asia and South America are built with single egress allowing for impressively large units even on small plots of land. And there are groups in Canada advocating for a change to codes to make construction of single egress buildings legal; namely The Second Egress: A Wicked Problem

My point here is so much of Toronto's current fabric has no possiblity of being densified except along major arterials. The compromise that these buildings could achieve is that historical buildings are preserved in exchange for as-of-right zoning of backyards and laneways for apartment buildings of modest height. Even just allowing 4-6 stories in places like Little Italy, Chinatown, Parkdale, etc would relieve serious pressure on the housing market.

Just a casual stroll through laneways in areas off Dundas W you can see property widths that would be able to sustain buildings like this:

And thats without even considering many of the properties that are consilidated into wider plots that could host even bigger buildings.

Obviously these areas are NIMBY hotbeds (Parkdale, Kensington Market residents would lose their minds to say the least), but surely we cannot afford to let these neighbourhoods remain locked in time forever.

Anyways I am more so just using this thread as a place to collect my thoughts and frustrations on this matter as it seems like an absolute no brainer to me. Single family laneway houses are nice but more appropriate for Markham and Missisauga in the context of our current crisis. Toronto needs to do better.

I'm curious if anyone has any other thoughts or even groups and individuals that advocating for laneway mid-rise apartments.

 

[menchu]

I took these last summer; in the Chrisite-Dupont area:

 

[70Challenger]

My own concept for a laneway house with a ground level micro-cafe, next to an Edwardian coach house on Wayne & Shuster Lane

 

[Towered]

 

[Towered]

 

[evandyk]

Just found this thread. In the spring, I moved into a laneway house that I built with a friend in her backyard. It was a fantastic way to get out of apartment living for the period when we really benefit from a house as our kid gets older. AMA if you're interested in knowing more about financing, construction, design, etc.

How ‘gentle density’ measures up to the hype as cities tackle Canada’s housing crisis

Canada needs about 5.8 million new homes by 2030, and one of the go-to solutions is to build more in existing neighbourhoods. Some provinces aren’t happy, and not all experts are sure this will reach the roots of the problem

www.theglobeandmail.com

And from the Brookfield Sustainability Institute:

Gentle Densification: Toronto's Laneway Housing Solution.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[janschot]

View attachment 599418

@Towered - where is this one? With the tiny commercial property?

 

[Towered]

@Towered - where is this one? With the tiny commercial property?

On Quebec Avenue just south of Dundas.

 

[christiesplits]

This Toronto homeowner thought a laneway suite would attract buyers. Instead, it made his property harder to sell

This Toronto homeowner thought a laneway suite would attract buyers. Instead, it made his property harder to sell

If you’re building a backyard home and hoping for a quick sale, experts say you’ll likely be disappointed.

www.thestar.com

Excerpts:

But seven years later, those trying to sell their properties are finding the laneway home doesn’t always add the value they expected. Real estate listing website HouseSigma shows properties with laneway suites often take several months to sell (as opposed to just over 20 days for detached and semi-detached homes, according to February’s Toronto Regional Real Estate Board data), with many seeing price drops of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Romey Halabi, a broker at Toronto Realty Boutique, said people who build laneway homes on their property tend to do so in order to stay put longer — whether it’s to downsize, rent it out or move in their older adult parents or university-aged children.

He “very rarely” has clients looking to sell or buy properties that already have laneway homes.

 

[HousingNowTO]

This Toronto homeowner thought a laneway suite would attract buyers. Instead, it made his property harder to sell

This Toronto homeowner thought a laneway suite would attract buyers. Instead, it made his property harder to sell

If you’re building a backyard home and hoping for a quick sale, experts say you’ll likely be disappointed.

www.thestar.com

Excerpts:

Specific site in that Article is 27 CHISHOLM AVE, near MAIN subway station on the Danforth -

As it says in STAR article - Jeremy Wilson did most of the work himself… Therein lies most of his problem.

There is a 5+ years long thread of PUBLIC posts in local Facebook groups about the many problems he had while building this Laneway Suite (*see attached screenshots).

Any sensible homebuyer in Fall 2024 – Winter 2025 would have done their research - and treated that public information as a red-flag on that specific property, etc.

The scenario in the STAR story is more of a warning about trying to be a DIY In-Fill Developer in Toronto, rather than the value of adding a "professionally built" Laneway or Garden Suite in Toronto and East York District.

 

[HousingNowTO]

Specific site in that Article is 27 CHISHOLM AVE, near MAIN subway station on the Danforth -

As it says in your article - Jeremy Wilson did most of the work himself… Therein lies most of his problem.

The scenario in the STAR story is more of a warning about trying to be a DIY In-Fill Developer in Toronto, rather than the value of adding a "professionally built" Laneway or Garden Suite in Toronto and East York District.

The Laneway Home is mostly a Drive-Thru Car-Port with Garage Doors on both the Laneway and the House side -

Wherein, the GARAGE alone has it's own 1/2-BATHROOM...?

Realtor's website is still up - https://www.27chisholmavenue.com/

 

[Northern Light]

While I agree that the above homeowner made several questionable choices. (you should generally not be your own GC).....

And that he didn't do enough homework on both the cost end and the recovery price end............

I disagree with @HousingNowTO 's hot take.

The article itself notes that the vast majority of homes with laneway houses take multiple times longer to sell, and generally sell for well below asking. This is not unique to one seller.

From the article:

That is not an argument against laneway homes/garden suites or their legalization.

Rather, its a suggestion that I have always said this would never be a panacea for affordable housing, and indeed, it has not been.

Most prospective buyers don't want a tenant, and even fewer want a small backyard or no parking. The trades made to obtain the additional ft2 generally have as much negative effect on pricing as positive.

Basement apartments have a far less substantial impact, because, frankly, they are both lower cost to create, typically, easier to repurpose as part of the main home, which many buyers do.

Lets assume, in either case, that you can get the accessory unit vacant. The most basic reno to simply put back an interior connection to the lower level (assuming such was removed) or shift around some doors is not a particularly expensive reno. Many people like the idea of a full bath in the basement.......so except for maybe removing a second kitchen or the like.........its not a big deal.

But what if you don't want the accessory space outback and you want the parking back or to enlarge the backyard? That's a great deal more expensive and cumbersome. So many take a pass. They don't see the extra space as usable by them as owners, if they don't want a tenant, because the structures aren't physically connected.

In multiple cases, what you've seeing is that the laneway suite, at best adds little to the inherent purchase price of the property. If you're willing to sit on the market for six months to get the right buyer, it may pay off. But elsewise, if comparable main houses on your street are 1.4M.........then so is yours........with a laneway house that it cost you at least $300,000 to build and maybe a lot more.

Even if you attract a $150,000 premium, its a financial loss. That doesn't mean people shouldn't do it to move mom and pop in, in their old age, or to bolster their income if they want to. Just that its probably not a good flipping strategy.

 

[HousingNowTO]

...at this point the SAMPLE-SIZE of recently completed Laneway Houses and Garden Suites that have entered the re-sale market within the City of Toronto since 2018 is likely too small to draw any firm conclusions when compared to a huge swath of stand-alone single-family home sales in the same geography.

Agreed that the multi-household format is always more complex -- and the "days on market" and "resale value" rankings for Laneway Homes and Garden Suites are likely more accurately measured against pre-existing Duplexes, Triplexes, or older properties with Coach Houses, etc. within the City of Toronto.

There was supposed to be regularly updated OPEN DATA on applications, approvals and occupancy-permits for Laneway Homes and Garden Suites posted to the City website -- but it still doesn't look that that has happened for FY-2024 processes yet -