Finch West Line 6 LRT

[chrisw]

At least we have a bike lane unlike on Eglinton. Also nice to have an underpass under Hwy 400.

Though it's really quite awkward for EMS to use this lane? Usually you expect cars to move to the right.

 

[drum118]

To a great degree, yes.

But also to control.

The project belongs to Metrolinx, not the City. If Metrolinx doesn't want to make a change, then its not happening.

The City can make a request to ML to change the design of the lanes with ML agreeing to it or not as well who is paying the extra cost. ML will go back to the P3 building it to get a firm cost to make the change at which point ML will have a real cost as to what it will take to meet the City request. At this point, the question is ask again as to who is paying for the change again. Based on the answer, it could be ago or no go. If it is ago, ML will issue a change order to make the change.

This would happen depending when the request is made by the City and when the City has come up with the current design. As to when that new design was approved, I will leave it to you as no my field, but if it was approved in the last few years, the change wouldn't happen as too much roadwork was already completed and if did happen, the roadwork would still be taking place today.

Nothing stopping the City in the future from making changes to areas that may see cars illegally parking in those lanes with the rest happening down the road as well having funds to do it.

I know the raise lanes are going in on Davenport between Bedford and Dupont with the standard road lane to the east, except at Avenue Rd bus stop which meet the new design. Personally, I find that raise lane to be a safety issue.

 

[Undead]

I happen to noticed that there is a car sitting not only in the bike lane, but also on the sidewalk in my last photo I posted on Tuesday. Never noticed it until I looked at it last night in a posting.

It maybe possible once service starts and cycles start using the lanes, cars will stop parking there, but wishful hopes since those drivers don't care what they are doing is illega in the first place.

Appears to be an Aecon company car so humorously it's someone involved with the project.

 

[yoshirocks702]

I think I read somewhere in the past that the original plan was just painted bike lines but they did change it to a more separated design, the city's email back confirmed this, here is part of the reply from the city:

"The rationale for the current design on Finch Avenue West is to allow Toronto Fire/EMS to enter the cycle tracks to provide service in the event of an emergency. The original design of Finch Avenue West featured painted bike lanes only, as Toronto Fire/EMS requires 8.2m clear distance to allow vehicles to reverse run and/or pull over. The bikeway is included in the 8.2m clear distance, which meant we could not add separation, which would prevent Fire and EMS vehicles to safety provide service at the curb. This is not our preferred design, as it allows other vehicles to also enter the cycle tracks; however, this is a Metrolinx project so the City did not have final say in the design. The City advocated for a safer design than painted bike lanes, which resulted in a rolled curb for separation."

They also said that it may be possible to do something similar to the flexible bollards that are installed on a section of Sherbourne Street where parking in the cycle track was an issue in front of the John Innes Community Recreation Centre later on once the handover is done.

 

[Amare]

Who told you this? First I've heard of it. My understanding is that its EMS choice not use the ROWs in most cases, as they are nervous about the tight dimensions and issues associated w/their own vehicle sway, as well as any oncoming Flexity. They also have concerns about snowbanks.

The Report from Toronto Fire from 2012 (on St. Clair ROW) is here:

https://transto.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/row-firereport.pdf

This is true regarding the existing legacy ROWs, and since that time Toronto EMS has been insistent on having all new ROWs being able to accommodate vehicles (as evidenced by recent Waterfront East LRT plans nixing any potential grass along the ROW corridor). I'm not sure how the decision came to using centre poles for the OCS system on Finch off the top of my head, but Metrolinx had the final say with the decision.

With Eglinton and Finch they accommodated to an extent EMS using the ROW with varying design decisions, and we all know what's going on with TSP (or lack thereof). So with those 2 things in mind, Toronto Transportation Services and EMS had an input into the design decisions made. The EMS got there way with certain things but not everything, which leads me to believe Toronto Transporation Services was ok with the overall design of the ROWs. More especially so when we have seen Metrolinx blame TTS for the lack of TSP. When Finch was initially being planned, the province was playing games regarding whether the TTC would or wouldnt operate the line, the TTC clearly won that battle but as to how far in the designs were at before they got involved with things i'm not completely sure, the saga with this line has gone on for far too long for me to remember all the specifics.

There are fairly unified standards in new design, when there is road reconstruction.

The preference is a raised cycle track with physical buffer, that is below the height of the curb. (properly separating it from pedestrians)

Differences in design reflect:

a) The time at which a bike lane was implemented. (designs have evolved)

b) Whether the change is permanent or temporary ( generally flexipost and concrete barriers are interim or quick-build solutions that will be removed when the road is reconstructed. However, road reconstructions are every ~60 years. We would be waiting forever for cycling infrastructure if we insisted on the permanent version.

c) Road and Boulevard width. There isn't always enough room to deliver the ideal design. At that point you have to choose not to build a cycling facility at all, or do something a bit novel to make it work.

Point A which you raise is the issue i'm having; standards certainly evolve over time especially when we are taking bike rider safety more seriously compared to before, but my issue is the degree to which the standards are implemented. I've seen a couple instances of roads with bike lanes being reconstructed, and the city just reverts back to whatever design was in existence initially (despite the road with being able to accomdate whatever new standards they are supposed to use on said road).

It's frustrating to see, which is why i'm annoyed with the approach being undertaken.

 

[Northern Light]

so when we have seen Metrolinx blame TTS for the lack of TSP.......

That one (lack of Transit Priority on Eglinton, and on many other routes), is rightly assigned to Toronto Transportation Services. Zero question, let them wear that one, its theirs.

Point A which you raise is the issue i'm having; standards certainly evolve over time especially when we are taking bike rider safety more seriously compared to before, but my issue is the degree to which the standards are implemented. I've seen a couple instances of roads with bike lanes being reconstructed, and the city just reverts back to whatever design was in existence initially (despite the road with being able to accomdate whatever new standards they are supposed to use on said road).

It's frustrating to see, which is why i'm annoyed with the approach being undertaken.

I can't speak to this at a generalized level; but if you message with me with questions about a specific project from the last few years, I can see if I can find out how things unfolded as they did...