Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

Rainforest said:
For the riders coming from the north, it would be quite a detour to reach as far south as the Exhibition before backtracking north to Queen.
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You could make the exact same argument against the current east route.
Rainforest said:
And finally, Metrolinx wants to use the Exhibition OL/GO interchange for relieving the Union Stn; that can work only if the OL still has room for more passengers when it reaches the Exhibition.
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If the trains are coming in full, that would make the Dufferin extension a resounding success.
 
Here's an update on the Dundas & Logan bridge work from today.

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Dundas Bridge
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Logan Bridge
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'

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Went to see the Canadian come down the Don Valley but it just sat up the line waiting for GO Richmond Hill trains to go north for 90 minutes and it was getting dark. Complain all you want about CN Rail, but Metrolinx is a terrible host to VIA Rail trains.

Anyways, while I was there, I flew the drone and got some shots of the progress on the Ontario Line crossing over the Don south of Leaside Bridge.

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.
 
Bojaxs said:
Alright, no hyperbole.

$13B for a "rapid" transit line that still has to stop at traffic lights is a joke!
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There’s always controversy when projects go over budget (and COVID was a unique scenario). Of course there are flaws with grade separation and train technology that will show their problems later, but this is still a hugely important project and once’s it’s been running reliably people will get over these silly fixations.
 
www.theglobeandmail.com

Canadian transit projects, mired in delays and cost overruns, force a rethink on what’s gone wrong

Political micromanagement and public-private partnerships each play a role in ill-fated projects that planners are now using as cautionary tales
www.theglobeandmail.com www.theglobeandmail.com

Some reason for optimism:

"Andrew Hope, the chief capital officer for rapid transit with Metrolinx said lessons have been learned from the Eglinton Crosstown experience and put into practice with the Ontario Line subway now under construction. Instead of a massive, risky P3 contract – in which private sector bidders were no longer interested – the latest line was broken up into several more manageable pieces.

Parts of the Ontario Line, including its main operations and maintenance contract, are conventional P3s. Other chunks, however, use what the industry calls a “progressive” or “negotiated” model, which sees governments and contractors collaborate in the early design phases to iron out problems and anticipate cost overruns before a final price tag is set. This avoids a key issue with P3s, which generally force contractors to lock in pricing before they are able to do a fully costed design – a situation that set the stage for delays and lawsuits.

“The world has changed pretty dramatically,” Mr. Hope said. “We’ve learned a lot. Contractors have learned a lot.”"

These lessons have not kept a lid on price increases. In 2019, Ontario Line construction was pegged at $11-billion. Three years later and the cost, now including trains, signalling and 30 years of operations, was up to $19-billion. In 2024, it was up again, according to Global News, to $27-billion.
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Still feels like some mixing of the construction cost and the construction cost and 30 year cost.
 
Allandale25 said:
Still feels like some mixing of the construction cost and the construction cost and 30 year cost.
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The guranteed fixed-price thing is a great populist mantra but deserves the debunking it's getting.

It seems wrongheaded to build a thirty-year relationship where the primary venue for dispute resolution is in the courts, and then trigger that resolution early on in the contract..

To make a comparison - these days it's common (and sensible) for marrying couples to sign a prenup agreement.....but.... if the newlyweds are already reading the prenup to each other after 18 months, or (worse) having their lawyers read it to each other.... the marriage is probably already on the rocks.

It seems ML in particular has been very inclined to head to court with the party they have married for the next thirty years. The likely motive is not so much upholding the contract as avoiding the optics of admitting any failure or blemish that could be a political or reputational issue. With the Crosstown so delayed, it's a little late for upholding reputation.... and other projects likewise.....

- Paul
 
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