Toronto Lower Don Lands Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

DSC said:
Happy to see this but a bit surprised as I would assume bridge removal (Old Eastern and Enbridge). Would screw up the new paving. Maybe they will open from at least King to Corktown?
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Honestly, since we know how the city has near non-existent coordination between projects, I'm willing to bet when they remove the bridge, the newly paved section will be ripped up or at least damaged.
 
evandyk said:
29 pedestrians were killed by cars in Toronto last year if you're concerned about collisions.
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How many of those were pedestrian at fault?

It's a tragedy any time anyone gets killed.

But it's important to note whether this was a driver at fault or a pedestrian at fault - who did something that a driver couldn't avoid.

Some would like to blame drivers for all deaths regardless of the situation, but that's not reality.
 
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hawc said:
How many of those were pedestrian at fault?

It's a tragedy any time anyone gets killed.

But it's important to note whether this was a driver at fault or a pedestrian at fault - who did something that a driver couldn't avoid.

Some would like to blame drivers for all deaths regardless of the situation, but that's not reality.
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Thankfully, we have Ontario-specific data from the officer of the Chief Coroner that indeed shows that in the majority of cases it's the driver's fault, which should be unsurprising given that the majority of fatal collisions in which a driver hits a pedestrian in Toronto occur in a f***ing marked crosswalk, and given that cross-jurisdictional at-fault findings are similar.

And, honestly, for those who aren't generally inclined to victim-blame, it shouldn't be at all surprising given that anyone can witness a litany of dangerous and illegal driver behaviour literally every single day. The Coroner's report provided a (much abridged) list of driver actions that often kill or maim people:

Screenshot 2024-09-18 at 12.00.25 PM.png
 
Sorry where's the actual
ADRM said:
Thankfully, we have Ontario-specific data from the officer of the Chief Coroner that indeed shows that in the majority of cases it's the driver's fault.
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Sorry, where's the data that show the number for drivers at fault vs pedestrians at fault?

I don't see that.

You just quoted a list of contributing factors on both sides to accidents.
 
hawc said:
Sorry where's the actual


Sorry, where's the data that show the number for drivers at fault vs pedestrians at fault?

I don't see that.

You just quoted a list of contributing factors on both sides to accidents.
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That is the finding of the Chief Coroner. Google the report yourself.
 
Northern Light said:
Any sign of the new stairs from the Dundas bridge? (or the supports for same? )
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We cycled over the Dundas bridge a couple of hours ago, but I hadn't seen your question.

Riding eastbound we were forced to ride in traffic due to some construction happening at the east end of the bridge. 😟

However, I did stop to take a photo from the bridge (looking south).

IMG_9728.jpeg
 
TwinHuey said:
We cycled over the Dundas bridge a couple of hours ago, but I hadn't seen your question.

Riding eastbound we were forced to ride in traffic due to some construction happening at the east end of the bridge. 😟

However, I did stop to take a photo from the bridge (looking south).

View attachment 597151
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Those look like support bases for stairs to me. So off the south side it seems. Thanks!
 
hawc said:
Sorry where's the actual


Sorry, where's the data that show the number for drivers at fault vs pedestrians at fault?

I don't see that.

You just quoted a list of contributing factors on both sides to accidents.
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My bad actor radar starts going off when folks start to get defensive over the indefensible. Hope that's not where you are going with this.
 
hawc said:
How many of those were pedestrian at fault?

It's a tragedy any time anyone gets killed.

But it's important to note whether this was a driver at fault or a pedestrian at fault - who did something that a driver couldn't avoid.

Some would like to blame drivers for all deaths regardless of the situation, but that's not reality.
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The first instinct shouldn't be to assign blame to users, but to consider whether the design of the infrastructure encourages safe behaviour or dangerous behaviour.

Users will always make mistakes, the key to sustainable safety is reducing the negative outcomes when they make those mistakes through safer design.
 
afransen said:
The first instinct shouldn't be to assign blame to users, but to consider whether the design of the infrastructure encourages safe behaviour or dangerous behaviour.

Users will always make mistakes, the key to sustainable safety is reducing the negative outcomes when they make those mistakes through safer design.
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Sure. Up to a point.

You can only do so much to 'encourage safe behaviour' with some people. Certain folks will still find a way to put themselves in harm's way and then blame the thing that harmed them.

I guess it's a personal responsibility thing vs society is responsible thing.

Reducing the speed limit to 20km/h city-wide for instance would reduce pedestrian deaths. But pedestrians also need to not step out in front of cars that can't stop or avoid them.

I don't know if I'd call pedestrian neglience a 'mistake' any more than I'd call driver negligence a 'mistake'. We can't entirely design away stupidity without dumbing everything down for everyone.

Where does my personal line lie? I'm all for bike lanes (put them on every street!) and pedestrian signal advance for instance, but I find 30km/h and 40 km/h speed limits on main roads (Avenue, Yonge etc) to be goofy.

Other people will have other opinions.
 
40 is way too fast to be driving on Yonge St. There are all sorts of things going on in a busy street like that which you can't be prepared to respond to at 40 km/h.
 
DSC said:
Happy to see this but a bit surprised as I would assume bridge removal (Old Eastern and Enbridge). Would screw up the new paving. Maybe they will open from at least King to Corktown?
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I’m pretty sure I received a notice from Metrolinx saying the paving was to provide access for bridge removal. I don’t think this is the final paving.
 
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