Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

Are you for real??

I ride through this valley every morning and it was gorgeous with all the trees and grass. Now it's nothing but mud.

No one on here is anti-transit. The Ontario Line is going to be an amazing addition to the city when it starts carrying passengers in the 2030s.

And yeah, you do have to break a few eggs to make an omelette, but you can be pro transit and saddened at the huge loss of green space that has had to happen because of it. The two are not mutually exclusive. If they had to tear down your house to build this line I'd be sad for you that you lost your house even though I'd understand the necessity of transit.

Plus as Northern Light points out the place at which this routes across the valley is very questionable. And the need to cut down such massive areas of trees to have room for staging feels really excessive. These tress once replanted won't be back to the same density for 30 years.
The problem is its discussions like these that are partly responsible to us having this massive 30 year transit deficit in the first place (not even remotely the sole perpetrator but it is a factor), where we have to pour our heart and soul and have community consultation over every small tree that needs to be shutdown. For many of us transit advocates its even more annoying since in many parts of the US it is very much the main reason for transit projects getting culled, stripped down, and delayed because everyone feels the need to sue transit agencies because it's going to destroy a handful of trees.

Furthermore it becomes really difficult to take these environmental arguments seriously when you're comparing a small strip of chopped down trees to WORLD WAR 1 BELGIUM, an event that I don't want to post pictures of in this forum.
 
I fail to see how this changes the ridership numbers since it still serves the same stations at roughly the same locations. The only possible way this can impact riders is if this route increases travel times by a minute, or makes riding the train slightly noisier, which is a concern but I don't find this likely.

The above makes no sense to me. The line, as routed, misses a High School, and the largest middle school by enrollment in the GTA.

The line is not present at Overlea/Don Mills.

I already did a post showing the different distance models to portions of Thorncliffe and Flemingdon. You're welcome to go back and read them. They show at difference of thousands of potential riders per day.

Regardless, I struggle to understand how my comment is tasteless

I did not use the word tasteless; I said insensitive, these are different words, with different meanings. You don't place a premium on the envrionment and on habitat for wildlife...........what's another acre of land gone, big deal. Ok, that's your preference. Many of us disagree, particularly when we deem the loss unnecessary, because a much better route was available at comparable cost.

..... Guys its a small 50m wide strip of trees in an area that isn't deprived of them, this is simply what one should expect when building a new rail line that isn't underground.

I get that you don't get it. That strip is a) more than 50M wide, and b) the damage to the main valley crossing, the Walmsley ravine crossing and this one, the E.T. Seton crossing is cumulative and is several hectares of land.

There was no avoiding some damage with the main valley crossing, though, if that crossing had been done next to or in conjunction with a strengthened Millwood bridge, that damage could have largely be confined to the existing bridge footprint. Still some damage there was unavoidable. Much of this at the north end was entirely unnecessary.
 
The above makes no sense to me. The line, as routed, misses a High School, and the largest middle school by enrollment in the GTA.

The line is not present at Overlea/Don Mills.

I already did a post showing the different distance models to portions of Thorncliffe and Flemingdon. You're welcome to go back and read them. They show at difference of thousands of potential riders per day.
I find this curious. Even before the line was routed through the valley, it only had 2 stations in the area, one at Overlea and Thorncliffe Park Drive, and one at Don Mills and Gateway Blvd (North). Those 2 stations are still in the same place, the only thing that changed is the route that the train takes between them. There was never going to be a station at Don Mills and Overlea, even when the line simply followed the streets.
I did not use the word tasteless; I said insensitive, these are different words, with different meanings. You don't place a premium on the envrionment and on habitat for wildlife...........what's another acre of land gone, big deal. Ok, that's your preference. Many of us disagree, particularly when we deem the loss unnecessary, because a much better route was available at comparable cost.
This feels like a strange academic distinction, all I did was misread what you wrote. Replace the word "tasteless" in my comment with "insensitive", and absolutely nothing changes. I still stand by my point that it is very "insensitive" to compare chopping down trees for a rapid transit line to literal war crimes.
I get that you don't get it. That strip is a) more than 50M wide, and b) the damage to the main valley crossing, the Walmsley ravine crossing and this one, the E.T. Seton crossing is cumulative and is several hectares of land.

There was no avoiding some damage with the main valley crossing, though, if that crossing had been done next to or in conjunction with a strengthened Millwood bridge, that damage could have largely be confined to the existing bridge footprint. Still some damage there was unavoidable. Much of this at the north end was entirely unnecessary.
Then we can agree to disagree, but I will highlight and reiterate the point I made to @hawc about how frustrating it is to put so much emphasis on a few hectares of land on a continent where such discussions have led us to constant meddling and delaying of public transit projects that further engrained car culture and has ultimately pumped far more greenhouse gases into the air that far offset the damage of chopping a few trees.
 

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I don’t think anyone really decries some trees getting cut. But it’s a lot, and there’s a reasonable question to be asked if all of that was necessary. So - do they absolutely need to stage equipment there? Was there no other choice? If so - do they actually need that much space?

What is your background in to be able to say whether this is too much?

Anyone else here decrying it, what is your background in?

It may look like a lot, but it might actually not be that much once all the machinery arrives and construction begins.
 
I find this curious. Even before the line was routed through the valley, it only had 2 stations in the area, one at Overlea and Thorncliffe Park Drive, and one at Don Mills and Gateway Blvd (North). Those 2 stations are still in the same place, the only thing that changed is the route that the train takes between them. There was never going to be a station at Don Mills and Overlea, even when the line simply followed the streets.

But there should be.

And the western Station on Overlea should be slightly further east as well.

The original concept being flawed, does not make the current iteration less flawed.

This feels like a strange academic distinction, all I did was misread what you wrote. Replace the word "tasteless" in my comment with "insensitive", and absolutely nothing changes. I still stand by my point.

Everything changes, please consult a dictionary, these words are not alike. I choose mine carefully.

Then we can agree to disagree

We definitely will and do.

, but I will highlight and reiterate the point I made to @hawc about how frustrating it is to put so much emphasis on a few hectares of land on a continent where such discussions have led us to constant meddling and delaying of public transit projects that further engrained car culture and has ultimately pumped far more greenhouse gases into the air that far offset the damage of chopping a few trees.

And I get that:

You continually mischaracterize things, intentionally and willfully and that really is not acceptable. A few (thousand) trees is not the same as a few trees. Yes, I'm being literal and I can get you the exact number if needs be; but it hardly matters.

***

The point is not meddling; its excellence. This isn't a NIMBY discussion, its a build the best transit line discussion. This is not the best line, the best route, the least damage or much else good that can be said. Its better than nothing. But nowhere near as good as it could be.

We will disagree now and forever, on this project and anything like it. I don't cheer lead anything, ever. Every decision should be defensible and Metrolinx's here are not.
 
ACCIONA SELECTED TO BUILD ELEVATED GUIDEWAY AND STATIONS FOR SUBWAY IN TORONTO



TORONTO, MARCH 11, 2024. ACCIONA and joint venture partner AMICO have been selected by the Province of Ontario to design and build a three-kilometre section of the Ontario Line subway project in Toronto.


The Elevated Guideway and Stations section (awarded by Infrastructure Ontario and Metrolinx) includes five above-ground stations: Riverside-Leslieville; Gerrard; Thorncliffe Park; Flemington Park; and Science Centre.


Once complete, the Ontario Line will be a 15.6-kilometre subway line with 15 new stations from Exhibition Place, through the heart of downtown and as far as the Eglinton Crosstown LRT (Line 5) at Don Mills Road.


The new line will provide passengers with easier and faster public transit service – for example, cutting the current end-to-end travel time from 70 minutes to less than 30. The new line will also relieve crowding on other parts of the existing transit network, providing connections to more than 40 travel options along the route including the TTC’s Line 1 and Line 2, three GO Transit rail lines, and the Eglinton Crosstown LRT.


Key projects


For more than two decades, ACCIONA has been helping to build some of Canada’s largest and most important infrastructure including the Site-C dam in British Columbia; the Walterdale Bridge in Edmonton; the Southeast Stoney Trail in Calgary; the A-30 highway in Quebec; the Herb Gray Parkway and the Windsor Essex Parkway in Ontario; and the Deep Lake Water Cooling System in Toronto. It has also upgraded the water distribution system in St John, New Brunswick.


ACCIONA has offices in Toronto and Vancouver, and has become one of the most active infrastructure companies in Canada. Current projects include the new Pattullo Bridge over the Fraser River in Metro Vancouver; and the Broadway subway extension In Vancouver.
 
This feels like a strange academic distinction, all I did was misread what you wrote. Replace the word "tasteless" in my comment with "insensitive", and absolutely nothing changes. I still stand by my point that it is very "insensitive" to compare chopping down trees for a rapid transit line to literal war crimes.

I'm not sure why you're making such a big deal out of this as though people don't use silly exaggerations to voice their displeasure with the things that they see day in, day out. If I call someone a grammar nazi or a tinpot dictator for doing something which is obviously far, far less terrible than what the nazis did, am I trivializing nazi war crimes? Some perspective would be nice.

I'm really going to have to reconsider how much I contribute here going forward. Can't criticize Metrolinx for anything at all without their cheerleaders coming out of the woodwork. It's too bad Metrolinx couldn't build a lemonade stand without bungling it up.
 
Wondering if we can do anything about it anyway, given how MX already finished the TPAP process and are issuing contracts for the buildout of the line. Maybe we could talk about how to mitigate the impacts of construction on the Don valley? I really hope they have an alternate route for the Don Trail, it's pretty well used and I really hope they have an alternative when the construction inevitably has to close parts of it.
 
I really hope they have an alternate route for the Don Trail, it's pretty well used and I really hope they have an alternative when the construction inevitably has to close parts of it.
Aren't there already signs saying it will eventually close around 2025?
 
What is your background in to be able to say whether this is too much?

Anyone else here decrying it, what is your background in?

It may look like a lot, but it might actually not be that much once all the machinery arrives and construction begins.
I:
  1. Stated my opinion that the clear cutting seemed like a lot
  2. Asked if all that space was necessary
You seem to have ignored that.

At any rate, while I would have preferred a routing along Overlea, where we could have ripped up an already-existing ROW that's covered in concrete and asphalt instead of destroying another part of our environment - I understand that Metrolinx took the easier option and we can't relitigate that routing. It is reasonable to ask if they're actually minimizing how much they're destroying to create that routing. I suspect they didn't think too much about it and didn't take any real pains to reduce the space they used (if history is any guide).
 
Who cares if a tree is invasive or native? Like other than if it were a weak invasive tree (Norway Maple) and falling on someone, who really cares? A tree is a tree. I know naturalists are obsessed with invasive or native, but no normal person would ever be able to tell them apart. It's not like these all used to be American Chestnut trees.
 
Norway maple a weak tree? They have a very long lifespan.

But yes - really, who cares? If the damn thing is massive, then it's helping the whole CO2 thing whether it's local, European, or whatever.

Worst invasive species here is humans.
 

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