St. Lawrence Market lower level redevelopment

[Tulse]

The City is proposing to redevelop the lower level of St. Lawrence Market. I went to the Open House on this project on June 27, where the basics of the proposal were laid out. The main features include:

• Adding a second east-west through corridor to the south of the current one.
• Rationalizing flow through the level (e.g., replacing the diagonal passage on the southwest with a straight north-south corridor)
• Provide a central programmable space
• Extend the enclosure out to the columns on the southwest side to add space (currently used by the colonnade) and allow for vendors to interact more directly with the sidewalk
• Allow some areas to be closed off so that parts of the lower level could operate after closing of the main market
• Rationalize and increase storage for merchants
• Improve sight lines and wayfinding

Overall merchant space would increase slightly.

Design is not finalized, so neither is budget and timeline (and will need Council approval), but it is anticipated to cost in the "low millions", and work would ideally begin in 2019.

 

[Tulse]

As far as the specifics of the meeting, a substantial portion of the relatively scanty crowd were merchants, who voiced concerns about how vendors will be informed of the changes, how long the spaces will be closed for the renovation, and what vendors will be allowed to remain. Lack of communication about the project was a concern expressed both by merchants and the public -- several people noted that there were no notices about the meeting posted in the neighbourhood, that the various neighbourhood groups were not alerted to the meeting, and that the St. Lawrence Neighbourhood Association meeting actually conflicted with the public forum(!).

My main concern (apart from potential loss of existing merchants during the reno) is the proposal to essentially glass in the west colonnade to create more vendor space. The renders of this space shown at the meeting presented a rather modern look that I thought would clash with the historic look of the market. I was told that the designs are still being finalized, and that respect for the heritage character of the building was an important design consideration, so we'll see what the final proposed design looks like.

 

[DSC]

In fairness to the meeting organisers, the draft plans have been seen and discussed by the City's Market Precinct Advisory Committee which has representatives from the merchants, the neighbourhood and the general public. From the questions, it would seem that the merchant reps had not kept all of their members 'in the loop'. The SLNA did send out info on this public session but it was certainly unfortunate that their regular monthly meeting (next door) conflicted with this one. - esp on the lower level - will be shuffled around. Of more interest is whether the 'new Market" will be 100% 'food oriented' or will continue to have some 'crafts' and other non-food stalls. I was certainly pleased to hear that they are planning the changes so that they will allow sections of the Market to be closed off so that they can be open for longer hours. The problem now is that it is really all open or all closed.

 

[Edward Skira]

The ideal situation would be to move the loading docks underground. And open up the east side so that all four side meet the city in an inviting way.

 

[Tulse]

Digging out for the docks would presumably be a very expensive proposition. My sense was that the designers were going for relatively affordable modifications, and made it clear that they weren't doing anything involving major structural work (i.e., moving walls, but not moving support pillars or excavation).

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Digging out for the docks would presumably be a very expensive proposition. My sense was that the designers were going for relatively affordable modifications, and made it clear that they weren't doing anything involving major structural work (i.e., moving walls, but not moving support pillars or excavation).

Expected but lacking in ambition - I wish there is a coherent, long-term plan for the market instead of treating the individual elements on a piecemeal basis.

AoD

 

[Tulse]

Would underground docks actually save any space on the lower level? Any ramp down would likely take up as much space or more on the lower level as the current dock does.

As for the current plans lacking ambition, I'm actually quite happy that they are not making major structural changes, as that really risks the character of the building. I personally think it's pretty great as-is, and the only long-term plan I'd like to see for the market is it opening in the evenings and on Sundays.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Would underground docks actually save any space on the lower level? Any ramp down would likely take up as much space or more on the lower level as the current dock does.

Not if you are relocating the docks south to where the temporary market will be; plus the goal should be adding more space than currently available.

Also, I find the lower level/ground floor to be a little bit of a waste of east and west street frontage right now, but working with it requires a bit more care given heritage aspects. Perhaps they can very selectively open up the market and focus more on providing (temporary) enclosure immediately below the podium - like glass "garage doors" that can be opened up except during winters?

AoD

 

[Tulse]

That certainly would be ambitious, but I really don't see the need. If space is the issue, I'd prefer to see the North Building expedited.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

That certainly would be ambitious, but I really don't see the need. If space is the issue, I'd prefer to see the North Building expedited.

North building doesn't provide that much space - in fact I think the amount of market space is actually lesser than the recently demolished version - and none of it is permanent.

AoD

 

[Tulse]

That's true, but how much space on the lower level would actually be reclaimed by removing the dock? It would be a hugely costly project, entail substantial structural and excavation work on a heritage building, and in the end wouldn't gain that much. And I just don't see the City being willing to pony up multiple tens/hundreds of millions on such a project.

The current proposal is definitely modest, but it will go some way to making the lower level a more functional and pleasant place, and for relatively little money.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

That's true, but how much space on the lower level would actually be reclaimed by removing the dock? It would be a hugely costly project, entail substantial structural and excavation work on a heritage building, and in the end wouldn't gain that much. And I just don't see the City being willing to pony up multiple tens/hundreds of millions on such a project.

The current proposal is definitely modest, but it will go some way to making the lower level a more functional and pleasant place, and for relatively little money.

Looking at the *very* generalized wayfinding plans - about 1/4 of the ground floor is taken up by loading space. I don't see it as something they have to undertake in one go - but something that should be in the master plan and undertaken when opportunity/money becomes available. Also, I'd love to see the market go one floor down for at least part of the footprint..

AoD

 

[Tulse]

A quarter seems like a large over-estimate to me -- the actual dock is the white rectangular space at the bottom, right?:

 

[Towered]

I actually find the chaotic, 70's flea market vibe down there quite appealing. Does everything need to be sterilized in this town?

 

[grey]

I visit the lower level almost daily and do most of my grocery shopping there. The merchants are making the most of an awkward space, and if they've agreed to the changes, then great. The place deserves to be way busier on weekdays.

I'm most excited about enhancements to the creepy, derelict colonnade. Honestly, it wouldn't take much to improve it. Hope they do it justice.