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SmartTrack (Proposed)

Eglinton West should be decoupled from the rest of SmartTrack and have the LRT extend across all of Eglinton into MISSISSAUGA and utilize the newly built MiWay Transitway as ROW into Square One and beyond. It's good that Mayor Tory views Eg West rapid transit as a priority though, so hopefully its construction will be accelerated now.
 
I don't see what's wrong with tunnelling under Eglinton in Etobicoke. It's not like there's a choice - there's no more room now that the Richview corridor is being developed, and there's no room for elevating it. Let's just be honest, it's not going to run in the middle of the street, so underground is the only option and everyone knows it.

How about the cost of tunneling? Use the Scarborough Subway (2 Line) extension costs as a starting point, if they tunnel. They're estimating $3.15 billion for that, I would make a note of those costs for reference.
 
I don't see what's wrong with tunnelling under Eglinton in Etobicoke. It's not like there's a choice - there's no more room now that the Richview corridor is being developed, and there's no room for elevating it. Let's just be honest, it's not going to run in the middle of the street, so underground is the only option and everyone knows it.

Umm... The price??? I'd sooner terminate the line at Mt. Dennis than pay to build an absurdly expensive and underused subway.
 
How about the cost of tunneling? Use the Scarborough Subway (2 Line) extension costs as a starting point, if they tunnel. They're estimating $3.15 billion for that, I would make a note of those costs for reference.

That is why I think we need to find a compromise. Tory would not want to back away from his election promise without somehow compensating the area. (Remember when Harper cancelled income trusts, but he added pension income splitting to compensate). Tory needs to be given a way of spend a few hundred million (maybe 5) to improve the LRT plan and allow him to abandon the costly portion of SmartTrack and save Billions.
 
That is why I think we need to find a compromise. Tory would not want to back away from his election promise without somehow compensating the area. (Remember when Harper cancelled income trusts, but he added pension income splitting to compensate). Tory needs to be given a way of spend a few hundred million (maybe 5) to improve the LRT plan and allow him to abandon the costly portion of SmartTrack and save Billions.

Best compromise would be to guarantee funding for Eglinton LRT that reaches Renforth Gateway and Pearson Airport.
 
Best compromise would be to guarantee funding for Eglinton LRT that reaches Renforth Gateway and Pearson Airport.

The fact of the matter is that the Province is going to electrify Union to Pearson out of their own wallet, and soon, for the Union Pearson Express. It would make more sense for SmartTrack to run north along the existing track to either the existing Etobicoke North or Malton GO Stations, as it will be electrified by the province. The Crosstown LRT can be extended for less then the Eglinton portion of SmartTrack, to the Airport Corporate Centre and even Pearson. The money saved by doing this can go to adding more stations north of Mount Dennis (~ $25 million per station) for SmartTrack. In this scheme, we get more transit, for the same cost.
 
The fact of the matter is that the Province is going to electrify Union to Pearson out of their own wallet, and soon, for the Union Pearson Express. It would make more sense for SmartTrack to run north along the existing track to either the existing Etobicoke North or Malton GO Stations, as it will be electrified by the province. The Crosstown LRT can be extended for less then the Eglinton portion of SmartTrack, to the Airport Corporate Centre and even Pearson. The money saved by doing this can go to adding more stations north of Mount Dennis (~ $25 million per station) for SmartTrack. In this scheme, we get more transit, for the same cost.
I completely agree.
 
I thought i read somewhere on here something about SmartTrack running west to hit Mississauga Square One (which is what the goal of JT is) and probably Hazel had a hand in that. Its getting really confusing with all these different proposed alignment to know what are all the various options to the alignment from the east (and how close to the Scarborough subway it would be) all the way to the west
 
Elevated LRT needs less space than on-street LRT (since they promised not to lose any traffic lanes in the process). It needs only +/- 7m, even less if you cantilver above the sidewalk (and road). Only at the major intersection is more space needed, and I understand that land was not sold there.

People keep claiming that elevated transit doesn't really affect cars or pedestrians at the street level. This is, of course, wrong, and a cursory visit to Richmond BC to look at the Canada Line looming over No. 3 Rd shows this clearly. It looks ugly, provides an experience for pedestrians similar to walking under the Gardiner, and still takes away traffic lanes.

The only downside of an at-grade middle-of-the-street routing is having to stop at an occasional traffic light. People seem to manage this while driving, and the whole ROW thing ensures the LRT doesn't deal with car traffic. The 510 is not the model here. And even if it was, I'd still rather be on a Spadina car at 4:30 on a Tuesday than King.
 
a-canada-line-2.jpg


If you mean, by example, this streetview at [url]https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.171252,-123.136465,3a,75y,155.4h,84.57t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sz7fzlaTXxATgmlZAL-eXdw!2e0[/URL] then it should be remembered that the concrete is "new". I'm sure the Gardiner Expressway looked "nice" when it was "new".

gardiner1.jpg


Give it a couple of decades.
 

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Give it a couple of decades.

I wonder how much salt is used on the elevated skyway. The Gardiner was build before they even knew what road salt was. Current construction uses 60 MPa concrete (vs. 20), 40mm concrete cover (vs. 20) and so many more improvements in chloride permeability, scaling resistance,freeze thaw resistance and water management.

People remember how much worse cars where back in the day. In the 70,s, dads cars would be rusting apart and only last 3 years. Similarly, construction techniques have improved significantly since the Gardiner was built.
 
Eglinton West now:
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Suburban section of Skytrain:
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Blech. I agree, a 21st C narrow elevated guideway is identical to a hulking six-lane 1950's-era expressway, and it does nothing but sully the pedestrian-friendliness of a suburban arterial.
 

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I wonder how much salt is used on the elevated skyway. The Gardiner was build before they even knew what road salt was. Current construction uses 60 MPa concrete (vs. 20), 40mm concrete cover (vs. 20) and so many more improvements in chloride permeability, scaling resistance,freeze thaw resistance and water management.

People remember how much worse cars where back in the day. In the 70,s, dads cars would be rusting apart and only last 3 years. Similarly, construction techniques have improved significantly since the Gardiner was built.

It would depend upon do they go to save the taxpayer money now by using cheaper concrete, or do they spend the gravy on the more expensive stuff. We should thank the builders of the Gardiner for saving us a lot of money in building it by not putting in breakdown lanes or shoulders on the elevated Gardiner. We may get the same pennypinchers who will decide to go for the "cheaper" route.
 
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Elevated on Eglinton West would likely be uglier than those Vancouver pictures because those Vancouver streets are much nicer to begin with. They have trees, flowers, are narrower, an have buildings come up to the street unlike Eglinton which has buildings much further, if at all.

However, does it really matter if it's uglier given that it's not a very pretty street to begin with?

Having said that, the question is: is the benefit of elevating (or putting underground) worth the extra cost?

The primary benefit is that the transit vehicle won't have to stop at traffic lights. The possible secondary benefit is that you can use heavy rail trains which continue along the GO tracks down to Union (and east then north onto Scarborough), if you choose to do so like in the SmartTrack proposal.

How big of a deal is not stopping at traffic signals? I would argue that it's not a huge deal on this stretch of Eglinton, because the traffic lights are far apart and with signal sync, the transit vehicle has to stop there anyways. The delay here by traffic signals is likely not a very large delay. This is my opinion based on driving through this stretch of Eglinton.

Looking at the cost, elevated is much higher cost than at-grade, both because of the elevated structure, and the stations themselves. Look at the stations in Vancouver, they have staff, elevators, escalators, they are essentially subway stations. If you do at-grade LRT, you can have a simple stop without staff or any fare gates. There's no disadvantage in terms of dwell time since it's running low floor LRVs with POP. Therefore, if you're designing a transit line with more stops, LRT is that much cheaper.

My personal opinion is: I'll wait until the feasibility study comes back :)
 
Well, it's important to emphasize that No. 3 Rd was never anything to look at in the first place apart from the "downtown" section. It's actually even more unpleasant in some other sections. After all, Streetview is more than a sufficient substitute for seeing it firsthand, to say nothing of the street before the Canada Line.
 

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